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The "Huh?" Episode

This week's episode is full of recent happenings in sports and entertainment that made us go... "huh?"

We discuss Martha Stewart's SI cover, IMG Academy's $1.25 billion sale to a Chinese private equity firm, and Ja Morant's gun troubles from a marketing perspective.

We also continue our discussion of the NBA Playoffs, bringing back our Fan of the Week segment to highlight one Golden State Warriors fan's epic display of fandom last week.

Watch/listen here:

Also streaming on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, & Stitcher.


[00:00:00] Mike Lewis: Welcome, everyone. Welcome to the Fanalytics podcast, brought to you by the Emory Marketing Analytics Center. My name is Mike Lewis. I'm joined by Doug Battle. Doug my day job is as a marketing professor and one of the core concepts of marketing and this idea of segmentation, targeting, and positioning.

Okay, so bear with me for a

second that, the way marketing works, effective marketing works is you understand a market, you understand the different segments out there. You come up with a product, and you position your product to satisfy or along the preferences of that segment. So, Doug, of course, I am talking about the si swimsuit edition that back in the day, the si swimsuit edition used to be this, I don't know, I guess I would call it like cheesecake, uh, kind of, these models would appear in this sports magazine and look be, this is before your time, Doug [00:01:00] Sports Illustrated was kind of.

The Bible of weekly sports, these high quality pictures, great coverage, great articles, kind of


[00:01:08] Doug Battle: was a subscriber, Mike,I got all the magazines growing

[00:01:11] Mike Lewis: okay, but you missed the heyday. I'm talking like in the seventies and


[00:01:16] Doug Battle: Okay.

[00:01:17] Mike Lewis: And they would sort of sneak in the swimsuit edition. Right. and you think about the position of it, right?

It was sort of a, it wasn't Playboy. They were fully clothed and it was kind of, out there for the 12 year old heterosexual male population. And of course, I just bring this up because Doug, I don't know, you, you ever watch Friends on Netflix? I think that's big with Gen Z, right?

A little bit.

[00:01:41] Doug Battle: I don't affiliate with Gen Z, so I don't appreciate that comment. But, uh, friends I have, I have watched friends. I haven't watched all of friends. I've seen episodes of friends.

[00:01:49] Mike Lewis: And I think they always, friends always had the, this is the blah, blah, blah episode. This is the coffee episode. This is the,

[00:01:55] Doug Battle: Right.

[00:01:56] Mike Lewis: this episode of analytics is the, huh? huh? Episode [00:02:00] and, and so Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition is featuring 81 year old Martha Stewart. And this is after years of, really kind of going away from that core product.

Now it, like I said, I was surprised to learn that Martha Stewart was 81. But the whole point is, this seems to be the way the world is going, but I don't know what audience this is supposed to be attracting anymore because it has clearly not sort of the core audience,that has, has historically been viewing the SI swimsuit


[00:02:35] Doug Battle: Well

you mentioned that SI had a taday in the seventies and what was Martha Stewart?

In her twenties back then. So maybe, I mean, maybe it is that core audience. It's that same, they're trying to recapture their core audience.

Yeah. I

don't know. I mean, when I was a teenager it was like Beyonce and Megan Fox

It almost seems like now these things have become

like,[00:03:00] some form



should empower some different group of people, you know? Now it's, apparently the elderly

feels funny to say, but, hey, I'll say this. I'll take, si over. it. You know, it was always really weird to me and even as a kid, following sports and you get sports illustrated every, yes. That is just bizarre to me. Like,

the swimsuit edition, like you understand its appeal. I think anyone can, the body issue was always bizarre. I'm trying to think here. There was some massive baseball player, that was on it the first time I saw that just grossed me out as a sports fan and as a kid and I still don't really understand.

[00:03:36] Mike Lewis: shirtless Jose Canseco or

[00:03:38] Doug Battle: And no, it

was, God, I'm blanking on his name. ma, I mean, someone who's 300 pounds though. I mean, it it is just,

[00:03:45] Mike Lewis: Yeah.

[00:03:45] Doug Battle: I

don't, understand whose idea that was and why is that still a thing?

[00:03:49] Mike Lewis: I don't think e s P magazine's this thing

[00:03:51] Doug Battle: It shouldn't be

that probably single-handedly put them outta business.

[00:03:56] Mike Lewis: but I think there, there's sort of a core point here and it's something I think we struggle with [00:04:00] a lot when we talk about sports and whenever sort of culture and political forces sort of invaded. Sports is kind of this, and I love the example of the si swimsuit edition because as a marketing professor, as a marketing guy, it's hard to actually make logical sense of this kind of stuff because I think you're right that there's some sort of agenda that says, Hey, this needs to be more inclusives.

We need to broaden the audience. But by doing so, they truly destroy the appeal of the core product. And look, you can argue that the internet destroyed the appeal of the core product a long time ago. But it's just such a curious thing to watch from a, from an observer of the cultures perspective and from a marketing perspective that, does this stuff make any sense?

I mean, si gets attention whenever they do this stuff, right? It's like, Hey, let's bring in Martha Stewart, let's bring in, whoever they're gonna bring in next year, right? they get some buzz. Does it go anywhere? It's hard to imagine.

[00:04:57] Doug Battle: It definitely gets buzzed. It's successful [00:05:00] in that, like we're talking about it,

it's trending on Twitter, I imagine. I actually saw while we were talking last year, they had a kind

[00:05:07] Mike Lewis: of a different mo, different covers and one of 'em was May Musk, also an elderly woman. but one of 'em was Kim Kardashian and one of 'em was cr so it's, they, I don't know if they're doing, I know with like college football, they'll do regional covers for the start of the season. I don't know if they're just doing, each demographic has its own cover. the other observation is, Doug, it's like so much of what, when we talk about sort of when we veer into entertainment, it's this phenomena of they didn't start a swimsuit edition that was kind of inclusive. Right. They took an existing swimsuit edition and they changed it. Right. And I think that's why they generate the buzz.

But it, like I said,it's sort of mystifying as a. Kind of traditionalist from a marketing perspective in, 2023.

let's see what else we got. Like I said, Doug, it's it's been a kind of a wild, [00:06:00] an interesting week where there's numerous stories that have just kinda left me shaking my


[00:06:04] Doug Battle: just an interesting world at this point.

[00:06:06] Mike Lewis: Yeah. Um,

[00:06:07] Doug Battle: of baffling and fascinating all at the

[00:06:09] Mike Lewis: in terms of picking up news stories via social media. And I don't really know what to make of this one, but it's interesting enough that I haven't done the, I've sort of gone in depth in it that there's reports that the owner of the IMG Academy, which I think is the UFC's parent company, actually, is selling I M G Academy, which I think is a high school to a Chinese private equity firm for $1.25 billion

[00:06:37] Doug Battle: see that. Wow. Billion.

[00:06:38] Mike Lewis: billion.

So we're now selling High. So we're creating high schools that are built around athletic programs,

[00:06:48] Doug Battle: Yes.

[00:06:49] Mike Lewis: and now we're selling these high schools to Chinese private equity firms. Doug, do you have a response or a thought?

[00:06:59] Doug Battle: the [00:07:00] Chinese are

infiltrating our next generation in every way. Between TikTok, between I M G, yeah. I don't know if you've seen the campus of I M G, but it looks more like a resort. And the all I know is that there's no way they're taking actual classes. Cuz every player that comes out of there as a recruit is like a five star.

And regardless of the sport, and they all are, it's like they're on the fast track program to become a professional athlete. You feel kind of bad for the ones that don't pan out.

[00:07:29] Mike Lewis: Well,

let me tell you something, Doug, because you know that my favorite sport, the sport I'm most interested in, well, last week was.


high school

lacrosse is now transitioning to collegiate division two women's lacrosse. But my daughter's high school has played IMG the last two


[00:07:49] Doug Battle: Have they,

[00:07:50] Mike Lewis: and they split with them.

So it's not like, it's not like they come across as sort of this loaded up group of, the equivalent of five stars and blow everyone [00:08:00] off the field,

[00:08:01] Doug Battle: this is in lacrosse,

[00:08:03] Mike Lewis: Yeah.

[00:08:04] Doug Battle: huh?

[00:08:05] Mike Lewis: They played 'em in Florida her junior year, and they played 'em in,in, Marietta, Georgia, her senior year and the one in Florida.

And they lost in, they lost at home.

[00:08:14] Doug Battle: Yeah. I didn't realize

they were that mediocre. not to say your daughter's lacrosse team is mediocre, but that,

I assume just a regular high school in Georgia could compete with this school. That's like

[00:08:27] Mike Lewis: well,

[00:08:28] Doug Battle: like it's a college

[00:08:30] Mike Lewis: I mean, my daughter's high school. Well, little shout out to Walton High

School. It is

a perennial Final four kind of program. So they're a very good high school program. But I'm with you that you hear i m g and you think, well, they're recruiting nationwide. They've got, they've got D one prospects up and down the roster, and they should be, they should be blowing people off the field, right?

[00:08:56] Doug Battle: Yeah. And I know in like in high school football, they'll lose [00:09:00] to some of the top teams in the country. But there's other programs that are kind of behaved the same way in basketball and in football. I just, I, with something like lacrosse, you would expect there to only be,

[00:09:12] Mike Lewis: Yeah. They're not Walton High School. Look, youth sports are a fascinating thing in terms of how they've evolved over time, right? And so, Affluent suburban high schools tend to have programs that build from, first grade up. So Walton is definitely one of those, but Walton is not the kind of place that's, bringing in ringers and recruiting and getting people to move districts


[00:09:33] Doug Battle: Well, I'm curious because like, I saw a thing today where Nick Saban had offered this quarterback when he was 13 years old. And I remember like growing up in Birmingham, James Winston was two years older than me. He

was in my brother's grade. And so we played him in football and he had an offer from Ohio State when he was in the eighth grade.


curious for like IMG,

where they're bringing

in kids in high school, they've gotta be recruiting them

[00:10:00] sixth grade, fourth grade. Like are they going to little flag football games and scouting out the next generation of talent? Like, it does get kind of weird

[00:10:09] Mike Lewis: oh.

[00:10:09] Doug Battle: you think about it.

[00:10:10] Mike Lewis: What's the re I mean, and again, I should probably have dug into this deeper, but it's such a fascinating headline. What's the revenue model? Because you can't imagine that kids going to IMG are, you gotta imagine there's a lot of scholarships going on,


[00:10:27] Doug Battle: Maybe

they're paying for the training and the facilities and the, I mean, maybe it is like they're paying to

live a resort at a resort and have professional training constantly and all their meals cooked for them. And I mean, maybe it is a service

for, I don't know. I have no idea. I can't imagine It's much of a school though, like I said.

And as I was saying before, I feel bad cuz I do know guys, like guys that played at Georgia that went to imgthat don't, don't make it. And you're like, dang, they didn't even get a real high school degree. Like they're really outta luck. I played a team in [00:11:00] high school, I played this basketball tournament

and there were several

teams there that were homeschool basketball teams

And we found out, oh, these homeschool basketball teams, they're actually like professional development. For athletes and they take these kids, they had kids from like Africa, like seven foot tall kids that they would bring into the US and teach. I mean, this is like a real thing that happens. No one talks, bring 'em into the us, teach 'em how to play basketball.

One out of every hundred of 'em will make it into the N B A and I guess somebody's making money off of that. The rest of them, they're in these little basketball academies. Like I, I remember feeling really bad for them

[00:11:38] Mike Lewis: I had, I've got an example of that. There was one in Chicago, I think it was called Boys to Men Academy, and it was, I think it was literally, two teachers who were also coaches in about 15 kids.


I think that lasted a couple of years.

But again,

let's come back to this number 1.25 billion. I mean, the only thing I can think is [00:12:00] that, is there potentially money on the back end, right?

That if you own these

[00:12:03] Doug Battle: an investment in the kids

[00:12:05] Mike Lewis: a a high school

[00:12:06] Doug Battle: like 10% of their career earnings.

[00:12:08] Mike Lewis: right? Or do you have a more of, I mean, you probably can't sign those deals, but do you have more of an ability to acquire them as future properties and assets and brands going forward? doesn't seem like it should be allowed though, does it?


[00:12:21] Doug Battle: No.

There, it's, there's something fishy. I don't know if you remember.

You probably do remember. Do you remember the fake high school that played? I think they played i m g in football. They created this, sycamore, Bishop Sycamore.


was a fake high

school and like, I think they had kids on the team that were like 25 and they were, they made themselves out to be this elite football program.

They got

s p n to televise one of their games. And they lost by like 80 points cuz they didn't. And then there was, and then somebody researched the school and found out it's actually not credible or accredited or legitimate in any way, school, program,

any of that. It was just this made up [00:13:00] thing. And they got people to pay to get ex quote unquote exposure to play on s P N and get absolutely waxed by, I think it was I M G. I don't, know if you, I like, I feel like we talked about this like two years ago, but

[00:13:13] Mike Lewis: I just wish, the part of this story was that like Eli Manning had been the quarterback,

[00:13:17] Doug Battle: no,


[00:13:18] Mike Lewis: but you,

[00:13:19] Doug Battle: Yeah.

[00:13:20] Mike Lewis: State


[00:13:21] Doug Battle: Right, Right, right, Yeah, I mean there's some strange stuff that goes on and how they're monetizing this, like how IMG is worth over billion dollars. As a high school, as a I'm wondering if, cuz i know i m g


more than just that high school, like I if and so like was this just the high school that was acquired or is it the entire

[00:13:44] Mike Lewis: IMG Academy, which I assume is a high school. I mean, here, I mean, let's sort little thought experiment. So maybe in this world of n I L,


are now in a position that essentially when your kids leave IMG Academy, they're almost leave, you're [00:14:00] almost bringing in kids to sell 'em on your n I L preparation.

So you essentially, they're leaving, I am, they're leaving the academy with an agent and relationships, already commercial relationships already set up, and so perhaps that's the angle. But again, if this is where N I L is going,


I mean, we speculated that we said it was the Wild West.

this could be taking on proportions beyond, I think even what we were speculating a couple of years


[00:14:31] Doug Battle: Okay, so I found some numbers. IMG Academy's tuition is approximately $84,400 a year for boarding students and 67,400 for day students.

[00:14:45] Mike Lewis: very competitive with Emory University in Georgia, I believe.

[00:14:50] Doug Battle: so


thing, I just don't know how they have that many elite athletes that can afford that.

[00:14:56] Mike Lewis: well, I


[00:14:57] Doug Battle: they given, is it all scholarship? And then,

[00:14:59] Mike Lewis: Well, [00:15:00] but I be, they're

[00:15:00] Doug Battle: there are, I do know people, like I had a friend in high school who 100% had the family and he was a good athlete and I know like they would've paid for him to have that top tier training and like positioning for college athletics.

So there are those kids, but it seems like IMG is getting A

A lot of

kids, like, I don't know,

like they're getting the real elite talent, not just the really rich people, I

[00:15:29] Mike Lewis: it is,

[00:15:30] Doug Battle: that those two overlap that


[00:15:33] Mike Lewis: the elite men's football and basketball talent. Right. And maybe a little bit of women's basketball, but the majority, there's probably a lot of kids. Cuz I know what you're talking about. There's a, it's almost a status symbol to say my kid is a division one athlete.

And so with the amount of, resources that some families have, you definitely imagine a scenario. it's hard to comprehend though, Doug, it's not a rational,

be spending [00:16:00] a quarter of a million dollars in tuition or more with room and board. To try and get a woman's lacrosse scholarship.

[00:16:09] Doug Battle: Well, to be


[00:16:11] Mike Lewis: Yeah.

[00:16:12] Doug Battle: from an investment standpoint,

if it's that and you get a scholarship and you get a full ride to college,

Could be, could pay off. It could say, if they have a college savings and they're like, you know what? Our kid's gonna be a college athlete, let's just double down and ensure that they get in,

get a scholarship to the best school kid gets into Duke with a full ride for four years.

It's money well spent. So, I mean, you can start to see the value in it.

[00:16:37] Mike Lewis: What's the sport though? I think I'm almost buying into your scenario, right? Cuz your kid plays four years at Duke.

They're probably gonna get into any med school. They,

or, the investment banking type, it's very impressive.

Right? So it's resume construction,


[00:16:53] Doug Battle: I mean, I could see that. I think my thinking is with football and basketball, they probably give scholarships to [00:17:00] some of the top players, and then my bet is they're making their money on tennis and golf and.

Swimming and lacrosse and all the other sports where people are saying, cuz i m g creates this brand, this, aura of elite athletic,

programs through their football and basketball.

Cuz that's what puts them on the map. And then let's say they, they give out a hundred scholarships between the two sports, but they bring in, 5,000 kids at other sports that are paying tuition. Then like,

[00:17:33] Mike Lewis: But that's the question. Is it anywhere near that


[00:17:36] Doug Battle: yeah, I don't know how many kids are at


[00:17:39] Mike Lewis: look, I get it because let's say you bring in those kids and you start working in them on N I L preparation from day one,


[00:17:46] Doug Battle: thousand by the way.

[00:17:47] Mike Lewis: Okay. And then suddenly your average I M G student, you can imagine a scenario where they're leaving that academy with a hundred thousand followers and suddenly they're a very lucrative and like you get some home runs [00:18:00] in there with multimillion followers.

They're now very lucrative. N i l type properties.

[00:18:05] Doug Battle: What we're saying is it's a good idea to spend a quarter of a million dollars to send your kid to img.

[00:18:10] Mike Lewis: well,

[00:18:11] Doug Battle: from this podcast.

[00:18:12] Mike Lewis: I dunno if it's, but there's a lot of people playing different angles.



[00:18:16] Doug Battle: no, the

more I look at it like I'm running the numbers over here, so they got a thousand kids. Okay. Let's say they give out a hundred scholarships.

so you got

900 non scholarships. Let's say there's 900 people paying full tuition at 80 grand a year.

[00:18:35] Mike Lewis: well that was with room and board, so let's


go with the,

[00:18:38] Doug Battle: let's do the other one then.

67, well say


$70,000 times 900 people. I mean, that's 63 million a year

[00:18:50] Mike Lewis: Yeah.

That doesn't get you to, that doesn't get you to evaluation of 1.25

[00:18:53] Doug Battle: Well, especially when your facilities like are that expensive? Like if you see, I mean it's like they own Disney World [00:19:00] practically. It's in Florida, it's the palm trees everywhere. I mean, like I said, it looks like a massive resort.

[00:19:07] Mike Lewis: Well, Doug, and you gotta pay your coaches at that kind of situation. Probably more, and look, there might be a few teachers. Right.

[00:19:12] Doug Battle: They

might have a teacher or two.


seriously, I would love to see their curriculum. Like I would, I really would love to see what that's like cuz I mean there's just no way.

[00:19:22] Mike Lewis: now

related to.

[00:19:23] Doug Battle: a thousand kids and all they care about is sports and all their parents care about is sports and you make a high school.

[00:19:30] Mike Lewis: Yeah, you gotta get the, but you know, you gotta look, you gotta get that test, those test scores too. Right? Because you gotta get the, you gotta be able to get some of these kids into the


[00:19:38] Doug Battle: All I'm saying is chat. G B T is gonna be working overtime at schools like this, writing lots of essays.

[00:19:46] Mike Lewis: Okay. Now, Doug, related to this I L speculation, the veer twins have finished at Miami and they took some shots at the NCAA on the way out. I believe it was a tweet or a t, I think it [00:20:00] was a TikTok. I think they're bigger on TikTok, a TikTok video, essentially pretending to call the NCAA and ask if they could have permission to graduate.

So the I l sorry, the NCAA kind of raise, throws up its hands, gives up on N I L. They go after essentially. Well, I think the first thing that NCAA went after was the cavender twins who transferred from, what was it? Cal State Fullerton, but to Miami basketball. And busted

[00:20:27] Doug Battle: one of 'em averaged like six points a game or something.

[00:20:30] Mike Lewis: I think the other one was solid though,


[00:20:32] Doug Battle: Yeah, but it's just, it's a lot of money per point. I will,

[00:20:35] Mike Lewis: yeah. But busted them for having meetings with Miami boosters, before they had agreed to come over. So N I L continues to be an absolute mess. And even after these young women made millions of dollars, I believe they were in the millions of dollars

categories, still not particularly happy with the ncaa.

[00:20:58] Doug Battle: Yeah, that's a weird one. You'd think [00:21:00] if a system benefited you that much, you would actually be like, it's got its flaws. But

could be

worse. could be worse.

[00:21:08] Mike Lewis: Well, Doug, here's the next, here's the question. What happens to athletes like the Cavender twins post sports? If they're still a marketable asset, how quickly will they leave their, lose their appeal, or I mean, will they be able to transition and


up with

[00:21:25] Doug Battle: they're celebrities now. I think it's like a Kardashian type thing where it's like people know them now and they're gonna always profit off of that. They, I'm seeing on just typing in their name, my newsfeed, it's like, oh, they did a Instagram, or they did a TikTok with their mom for Mother's Day, and she's like, fit and attractive.

Like maybe she'll be in Sports Illustrated swimsuit next year,

[00:21:45] Mike Lewis: oh, the Cavenders? You know what? Sports Illustrate is probably not big enough for the Cavenders at this


[00:21:50] Doug Battle: Yeah. Yeah. yeah, so I think didn't they have like a W W E deal?

[00:21:55] Mike Lewis: Oh,

[00:21:56] Doug Battle: mean, they're gonna, they're gonna monetize. They're smart. they're like the Paul Brothers. [00:22:00] I think they're like the Paul Brothers. It's like they're female parallel and they're gonna find ways to always monetize

the fact that they're famous, so

[00:22:08] Mike Lewis: I'm gonna root for


[00:22:09] Doug Battle: people do it.

I know a guy from high school that was big on Vine and he's still making a living off of like YouTube and Instagram, like just.


making anything substantial as far as like producing anything of value for anyone. It's just

like he's famous and he gets paid to be famous. So I think that's what people like the Cavender twins will do.

and like I said, they seem savvy. they

clearly, they weren't necessarily concerned about playing by the rules in college as much as getting a big payday. And who can blame 'em? And they're gonna, they're gonna be famous. I, they're gonna be, I don't know, maybe they'll go into modeling or acting or wrestling or,

there's so many things.

Clothing line,

I mean, own your own fashion brand

[00:22:59] Mike Lewis: Hey,

[00:23:00] they're pioneers.

[00:23:01] Doug Battle: post videos promoting local businesses

[00:23:05] Mike Lewis: And is that enough? Right?


[00:23:06] Doug Battle: businesses.


[00:23:08] Mike Lewis: videos, just sort of, generating con, running your own sort of communications company from, 15 seconds at a time, or 30 seconds at a time via


[00:23:16] Doug Battle: Yeah, I was


I was talking to

my brother about this kind of phenomenon in our generation, and he's like, what are these people, not the Cav trends necessarily, but people our age, people in their twenties and thirties who are making a living from posting


and pictures and stuff.

stuff. Primarily because they're attractive.

Oftentimes, like if we're real about it and people wanna watch that or see it and are naturally inclined to watch, he's like, what are they, how are they gonna, what are they gonna do when they're like 60?

And I'm

like, I don't know. Maybe like, we didn't like our parents' generation, they weren't content creators in

their twenties. Like maybe they would still be doing that if they were like Martha Stewart, [00:24:00] she's on the cover of Sports Australia. Like maybe that'll be what the world's like at that point, maybe we'll have 60 year olds making content for a living and flexing on social media about,

their new outfit.

II don't, know.

[00:24:12] Mike Lewis: That's an

interesting thought

exercise, right?

[00:24:14] Doug Battle: I mean, it's like a whole market. It's like a whole like industry that didn't exist a generation ago and there is that question, how does it age?

[00:24:23] Mike Lewis: there's always been fame and fandom, right? And so

let me,

[00:24:26] Doug Battle: But were there people making a living off of just

like not being

a model or actor, like not being in the market in that way, but just off of the fact that people knew who they were

[00:24:41] Mike Lewis: I, I think. not like what we have now. And I think the big difference is that it always used to be, you always had to have the support of some platform, right? Like, so Polly Shore, I don't know if you know who Polly Shore is, he was one of these MTV celebrities. who was big for spring break and then ended up in some movies, where, [00:25:00] and he comes to mind because he was sort of just a, no, he was like a novelty

[00:25:04] Doug Battle: Yeah.

[00:25:05] Mike Lewis: But how many of those, get to continue on and look, I'll ask you this question, like if you think about musical artists or actors, how many of them get to have the whole 40 or 50 year career,


[00:25:17] Doug Battle: I'll say this, all right. one of my favorite bands growing up,

I recently met one of the

band mates. one of the band members, and, they were ba he was a teenager, he was late teens, early twenties, and it's like, he works like a regular job now. It's like a 40 year old guy.

And it's,

it was weird for me to be like, really? Like, because you were this big star. like that was kind of bizarre to me. but there are certain professions where it's like, well you can do it for 10 years. But I mean, there's very few people that are gonna monetize that for forever

[00:25:49] Mike Lewis: Well, I mean, going back to this issue of like the, like Taylor Swift can probably, have a career like Cher or Barbara

Streisand and go all the way till she's 70. But most [00:26:00] of the sort of the, the young pop stars, you, we will have quickly forgot, like it's one of the differences between entertainment and sports, right?

The Georgia Bulldog football team, you'll root for them till you're 80,


Where these acts tend to.


[00:26:16] Doug Battle: well, I will say

I don't know to counter that a little bit. My podcast for Georgia Football, a lot of the guys I would talk to were guys again, that I worshiped when I was in high school or as a kid, and you talk to

'em and it's like, oh, they work for, my friend's dad's company. Like they work in real estate or they work. And I'm not belittling that in any way. I'm just saying that a lot of types of stardom are very valuable. Being a Georgia football player, a star Georgia football player is very valuable. But maybe of the guys, even of the stars. I mean, I would say of the stars over the years at a program like Georgia, a small percentage end up making a living in the N F L for more than a couple of years, more than a year or two.[00:27:00]

And then it's like, okay, so then what? And now it's like, well there's the, like the whole thing with Stets Stetson Bennett this year was that he could probably live off of being George's quarterback the rest of his life. Like, he probably doesn't even have to go to the NFL cuz he can just do local stuff and the media and all that.

Like, you can monetize it that way. But for a lot of guys, it's like 10 years ago were probably worth millions of dollars to the school.


now like, it doesn't matter. Like youyou gotta get a job. Like you gotta go back to school. You gotta figure something out because they're, you're not getting paid retroactively for that. And I think that's kind of what I imagine it being like as far as this kind of

[00:27:40] Mike Lewis: Well, it's probably a.

[00:27:41] Doug Battle: culture.

[00:27:42] Mike Lewis: I

think it's probably true for anything, right? I mean, you look at the number of stars. You look at the folks that are, let's say the top 10 movie stars in any given year, right? and the odds are that they're all gonna quickly fade except for like, look, Tom Cruise is probably the one guy from the eighties to now that can have number one [00:28:00] movies, right?

And so it,it's a filtering, it's a filtering process that I don't think we know how it's gonna go for the social media creators. Because I think the big question is, will, what will people do? I mean, cuz it's hard to imagine, Doug and I almost think, it is almost a little unfortunate to call you Generation Z because I think there's

a, between an 18 year old and a five year old at this


[00:28:24] Doug Battle: Yeah.

[00:28:24] Mike Lewis: it's sort of interesting to imagine like, as an 18, look, my daughter is 18,



[00:28:30] Doug Battle: She's Gen Z. Yeah.

[00:28:32] Mike Lewis: Is she still gonna be, is that gonna be her primary source of media when she's 35, 45?


65. It's hard to imagine. It's hard to say yes to that, but it could very well be, we don't know what it's gonna evolve


[00:28:48] Doug Battle: Yeah, I think it'll, that's why I mentioned Vine earlier when I was in high school, vine was as big as TikTok is now, and it doesn't exist.

[00:28:56] Mike Lewis: Fine. Had a hilarious mo Vine was hilarious for a minute, right? [00:29:00] those loops that

people would do.

[00:29:01] Doug Battle: Yeah,


was kind of great. It was TikTok before TikTok and it, I'm, to the best of my knowledge, wasn't owned by the Chinese and there, there wasn't as much data issues.

as, and that's with the TikTok stars. I think they probably should position themselves for other platforms, and I think they're smart. I think everybody knows that. But like my friend who, and I say friend, my acquaintance who I knew who was really big on Vine.

When Vine died, I was like, oh, that sucks for him. There goes his whole following, like, that's worth a lot of money. And

he just blew up on YouTube. Like he, people know who he is, they'll find him.

There's always gonna be a platform and some people

that are, savvy about it are gonna just switch platforms and be nimble and adjust and adapt and,

continue. it's

like, oh, like u2,

like people don't buy CDs anymore, so is U2 done? Like no, they just,

now they're music streams like, or Coldplay or something like that.

Like, you [00:30:00] gotta be nimble. you can't be, you can't just sell your vinyl records. and in, in this case, I don't think TikTok is gonna last very long. This is my personal take, but I think people like the Cavender twins will outlast TikTok


other, on, on YouTube or on

[00:30:14] Mike Lewis: and that's the be the bet, right? Some of them will,

[00:30:17] Doug Battle: Yeah.

[00:30:18] Mike Lewis: some 'em won't take an entirely D like the Paul Brothers. Seem like they're gonna figure something out, but you know, a lot of these folks will disappear. Like, like, and again, I'll say this with the wisdom of age. what's kind of cute at 25 is very often repellent at 35 and 45 with some of these celebrities, right?



[00:30:41] Doug Battle: that's what I'm saying withmy brother being like, what happens when these people are 60 and they're trying the same thing?



[00:30:48] Mike Lewis: the other thing that's going on right now. A And look, we have this conversation, we've had this conversation for multiple years. The NBA playoffs come in,

[00:30:57] Doug Battle: Yeah.

[00:30:58] Mike Lewis: and and I always view this [00:31:00] as well, this is where the narratives are written where the brands are built. For years we've been saying, who's up next?

Is it Luka Donk? Is it Trey Young? Doug? Maybe we got all that wrong. Right. It's almost like who's up next? Well, it's LeBron James and,this guy. That's just a joy to watch out there in Denver and maybe Jason Tatum. I mean, it's kind of fascinating to watch where

it's not

where I thought the league would've.

If you had asked me a couple years ago who the, who would be in the limelight for the NBA player at playoffs, it would not have been that set of people.

[00:31:38] Doug Battle: Yeah, I

definitely, when LeBron went to the Lakers, I was just talking to a buddy about this. I was like,

I thought LeBron was gonna kind of fizzle out and or phase out. But while he phased out, like Anthony Davis would phase in, and by this point in time, Anthony Davis would. Be the face of the Lakers, face of the N B A and LeBron

would be kind of [00:32:00] what D Wade was to LeBron in Miami.

That's what I envisioned. And so I do think it


beneficial to his legacy that he's

the guy at this point in his career, at this age and, after

all these years.

[00:32:15] Mike Lewis: because you called it last week, you said you thought, it's like this is almost, it feels like it's from the


[00:32:21] Doug Battle: Celtics,

[00:32:22] Mike Lewis: that LeBron defeats Durant.

Then he

[00:32:26] Doug Battle: well, he doesn't defeat, he doesn't defeat Durant now. I missed that one.

[00:32:29] Mike Lewis: then he defeats Durant and then he beats the Celtics. We didn't get that, but in a way, this almost feels, to me this almost feels better where Yoki is. Has caught fire in terms of the marketing. This time it's like the NBA finally discovered how to work with



so in some almost feels, but, and here's the twist in it. Po possibly, or is this like in w e wrestling parlance, does [00:33:00] LeBron put o does a defeat of LeBron by Jokic make him the new face of the


[00:33:06] Doug Battle: I do think,

[00:33:08] Mike Lewis: or the new face of the league?

[00:33:09] Doug Battle: yeah,

it's a

win-win. It's a win-win. Even if it ends up being Celtics, Lakers is a win-win because if Tatum beats, yeah, I go back to Tatum's rookie year. I remember him dunking on LeBron, I believe it was game six against the calves in the Eastern Conference finals and kind of. Saying hello, like, I'm Jason Tatum, I'm gonna be here for a while. I'm the new, I'm the new guy you gotta worry about. And so now, all these years later, if he were to finally, cuz they lost that series, it was tight, but they lost that series. if he were to take that next step and become the alpha, become the guy that wins the championship, I mean, 51 points in game seven of the, the last round of the Eastern Conference playoffs.

Pretty impressive from Tatum. And he's in a position, much like Devin Booker has been in the past where it's like, this could be his chance to become, we've always talked about him. Like, d [00:34:00] do people

wanna be like Mike? Do people wanna be like Jason Tatum? Like he's not really that guy, but if he were to beat LeBron in the finals, he's that guy.

[00:34:07] Mike Lewis: And he's wearing the right jersey to do it, right?

[00:34:11] Doug Battle: yeah.

[00:34:11] Mike Lewis: that's kinda part of this


[00:34:13] Doug Battle: Oh yeah. And, so Yoic is not, but I think Yoic, like, I remember when LeBron was with the heat and granted LeBron's heat, they were so dislikable.

of how they came to be and LeBron leaving Cleveland in the manner in which he did it. So there were a lot of people that just were gonna pull for whoever they were playing, And it's just happened to be dirt, Novinski and the Mavericks, who most people, by the way, had written off, I mean, the second best player on that team was Jason Terry.

And it was, they were an afterthought.

And winning that series made them legends and

created a lot of Dallas Mavericks fans, a lot of dirt Novinski fans. I think that's the position that Denver is in right now with Yoic. And the, that the NBA's in with Yoic, where it's like, if he does win this series,


gonna, he's gonna earn the [00:35:00] permanent fandom of the LeBron Haters, which might be the second biggest fandom in the NBA behind the LeBron fans,

[00:35:07] Mike Lewis: Or might be the biggest.


[00:35:09] Doug Battle: or, Yeah. Yeah. It could be the biggest. And so

I'm excited about it. I mean, it's gonna be fun to watch. I still think it's Lakers Celtics, but you know, I'm pulling for, I'm pulling for Denver versus Miami Finals. I wanna see.


[00:35:21] Mike Lewis: Jimmy Butler has actually put together an astonishing career.

[00:35:26] Doug Battle: Yes.

[00:35:28] Mike Lewis: I mean, the level of success and the level of clutch performances. I don't actually know how to think about him because, he never seems to, he never seems to be anywhere near becoming the face of the league.

[00:35:40] Doug Battle: No.

[00:35:41] Mike Lewis: But he's, like I said, that's really an astonishing career that he's put together In terms of always sort of overperforming where you think his team is, where his team should be.

[00:35:53] Doug Battle: Yeah. And Jimmy Butler, another thing is he's at times been thought to be a cancer. [00:36:00] Like, oh,

he's not a good locker room guy. You don't want him on your team.


then he,

all of a sudden, he's the guy you want closing the game and he's the guy you want in the he's the guy you want taking a eight seed, potentially the N B A finals.

So he was the 30th pick in the 2011 draft.

So first

off, 2011,

he's been in the

league for a while. I mean, he's not some up and comer like I feel like he's one of those perennial up and comers, kind of like Jason Tatum is now, even though Tatum is much younger of course, but where it always feels like he's on the brink.

He might become one of the elites, but he's kindlike a perennial third team NBA guy. And like coming off the bench for Team U s A

in Chicago, there was a time where, I mean,

he was kind in that Paul George category where it was like, he's a

great two-way player.

He's better than a three and D guy.

Could he become the guy that shuts down LeBron? And the answer was no. and then he's [00:37:00] bounced around. And like in Minnesota, I know there was a lot of controversy

and almost his

reputation changed to, it's like, well, he had the potential to be that guy, but he doesn't have the intangibles. And now all of a sudden it's like, okay, he's got the intangibles.

He's just, I don't know if he's kind of an old school player in the sense he's got a lot of mid-range to his game. he's not a,

he's not the modern player. He is not popping deep threes only, he is not a analytics guy in the sense of he's only taking the most efficient shots, but

[00:37:32] Mike Lewis: I


[00:37:33] Doug Battle: a warrior.

[00:37:33] Mike Lewis: the category though,


[00:37:36] Doug Battle: Yeah. Yeah. So he's, I would love to see, I would love to see him win a finals. I don't think it's gonna happen. I would love to see it. Eric Spolstra a guy who I thought was kind of a goof when he coached the heat with LeBron and Dwayne Wade, this wasn't his first time taking a kind of undermanned team deep into the Eastern Conference playoffs.

And he's gained, [00:38:00] I mean, he's gained a lot of people's respect post LeBron, which is kind of rare in the N B A. You look at guys that have been getting fired lately.


Holzer last week.

[00:38:12] Mike Lewis: Yeah.


[00:38:13] Doug Battle: yeah, Monty, William, I mean, guys who were coached of the year one year and fired the next or win a championship and are fired two years later.

[00:38:21] Mike Lewis: it, it is,

[00:38:22] Doug Battle: Stra was definitely one. I would've, said, two years post LeBron and Dwayne Wade, he's done

and he's

done the co quite the opposite. I think he's had a more impressive post LeBron career than his career with LeBron, even though he did win a few championships there.

[00:38:35] Mike Lewis: It's hard to see how the analytics merit these coach firings. As a,

as an

[00:38:40] Doug Battle: Yeah, no, I don't,

[00:38:41] Mike Lewis: coming

down very, very, very, very