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Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, & NFC North QBs

The NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament stole March's thunder. We begin this podcast with a discussion on how the Caitlin Clark vs. Angel Reese rivalry accomplished this.

We then continue our discussion on NFL offseason QB storylines with a look at Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Justin Fields, Jared Goff, and the AFC North.

Watch/listen here:


NFC North

Mike Lewis: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome everyone. Welcome the podcast, brought to you by the Emory Marketing Analytics Center. Your usual host, Mike Lewis and Doug Battle, Doug NCAA Tournament has concluded. Hey, I'll throw something at you right out the gate. Apparently the woman's championship game, 9.9 million viewers, the men's championship game, 12 point some 12 and some change viewers, that is a dramatic change, my friend,

Doug Video: Oh my goodness. That's massive. I've been saying Caitlin Clark has the potential to change the game for women's basketball. She has captured such an audience. She is such a phenom. She's got that Steph Curry distance and.

Mike Lewis: range.

Doug Video: I was, I was kind of blown away by how [00:01:00] everyone took sides with that tournament.

Caitlin Clark became, just by default, the person everyone pulled for, everyone hated lsu. It seemed outside of the state of Louisiana, and felt like they were classless. And of course that's been debated since, but I'm like, since when did we all have so much passion for women's basketball? They had that fandom 1 0 1 NCAA Women's Tournament commercial, and it's like everyone watched it and said, okay, we're gonna be fans now.

Thank you. Caitlin Clark.

Mike Lewis: She was like from central casting, right? I mean, the range on those shots, and look Doug, my perspective will always don't fandom anything. So I'm never gonna feel bad if I'm not watching, if I'm not watching hockey or I'm not watching women's basketball.

But I don't recall seeing that kind of game a lot on the woman's side in terms of that range. And then frankly, look, trash talking is an art, my friend [00:02:00] is an art and I don't even know what some of Doug, I mean, I don't know what that means, right? But it was awesome. And so you've got the best player on the floor taking these, amazing shots and then trash talking and look, that's the kind of magic, that's the kind of magic that, that actually starts to build those kind of lasting memories.

Now I'll say this, and the unfortunate thing is then, we get to the championship game and we have lsu

And Angel Reese is trash talking, but you know, quite frankly, angel Reese isn't as likable as Caitlin Clark. And so suddenly then this goes to social media and it becomes a issue, and then two days later it becomes a gender issue because men can do it.

Doug, my two favorite trash talkers are Pat, Bev and Caitlin Clark.

Doug Video: Okay. Oh, well, I mean, angel Reese has gotta be up there. She was pretty ruthless during the championship game, and

Mike Lewis: but this is the [00:03:00] magic of trash talking. Right? There's almost gotta be a twinkle in your eye when you're doing it.

Doug Video: she was just heartless.

Mike Lewis: She was mad, right?

Doug Video: Yeah, I know. I, when I saw the initial controversy, my first thought was, huh, that's kind of funny because when Pat Bev does it, people definitely receive it differently. I mean, people still hate, that's the thing that gets lost here. I don't think this is much different than Pat Bev in the sense. Lakers fans when he plays for the Lake or Timberwolves or whatever team he's on at the time, I'm just thinking of famous instances of him and he's on a different team, like every week. the fans of his team think it's great, it's just sports, it's competitive. And the fans of the rest of the N B A say he's got no class and he's a bad example for kids.

And that's bad sportsmanship. And that's exactly what happened here. I think LSU fans, a hundred percent are saying, it's just basketball. It's a game. This is what competitors do. Caitlin Clark would do the same thing [00:04:00] and Caitlin Clark's come out and said the same thing, which is a new twist to the story.

But I don't want to get caught up in the debate there as much as the fact that we're all talking about women's college basketball. Think about n i l, like we've seen with gymnastics, how much money these girls are making. someone was asking me, is Caitlin Clark gonna come back for another year?

I don't know the answer to that, but.

Mike Lewis: I think in the women's side you basically have to, the W N B A doesn't draft until year four.

Doug Video: okay, well, I didn't know that. not the W N B A expert over here, but Mike, I know you've been in the draft room, the green room for the drafts here. but I do know that she will likely make just as much or not more money. I mean that W N B A salary, I imagine hers will be very high relative to the average, but still,

Mike Lewis: if that's, I dunno if there's a rookie scale, right? I mean, so it literally might be something like $60,000 out the gate or [00:05:00] $70,000.

Doug Video: Yeah. So, like, I mean, compared to what she's making and is gonna make with her endorsements, she's gonna be,

Mike Lewis: N i l plot twist. Right? Certain female athletes are making, eh, look, this is probably, this could be true for a lot of athletes, right? Does Stetson Bennett make as much money next year as he made this year? it's, this is,

Doug Video: I don't think

Mike Lewis: like I said, plot twist in terms of n i l. now I will say this, Doug, and again, we always seem to end up kind of being, look, it starts with some great trash talking, right?

And then becomes a political and, a racial and then, misogyny

Doug Video: like the articles are like, people who voted for this candidate think that this player's classless.

Mike Lewis: But, the, for me, the thing that I'm interested in is, did that kind of, Did that kind of spoil the moment? I mean, cuz it was a lot of fun. Like when she backed off that South Carolina player and was like, just shoot the ball. Right? I mean that was this [00:06:00] ruthless playground stuff. But then they kind of twisted it in.

The story kind of went in some odd direction. Like I saw there a video of the, of Angel Reese and another one of the LSU players celebrating with the trophy and they were sort of chanting the price just went up and it's like, I kind of feel bad cuz I don't even fully understand the trash talking.

Are they talking about the n i L price going up? Is there some other reference? I

Doug Video: what the kids say. Yeah. It's what the kids say. Yeah, that's what I'm here for. that's my insight for

Mike Lewis: Now you got about two years left before we replace you with a 17 year old then.

Doug Video: It's what the kids say. Price went up. it's like your stock's going up, yeah. I also like Caitlin Clark. She's a phenom. She's gonna be like, female, Steph Curry. I love it. I love how competitive she is. And I think that was like, I think the kind of rah, like, oh, we're all having fun.

Like, I think that hurts the image. And that this, the real gritty competitive nature of this captured a such a wide audience. And [00:07:00] it's like people love that mamba mentality and these girls aren't doing windmill dunks and they're not, I mean, it's a different product, but they can have an even better competitive spirit or equal level of competition as far as the taunting and just the will to win.

And that mentality. And that's what we saw. And I think that's what captured an audience. And I think that's gonna be the key. I think the, like the W N B A as a league has to look at this and be like,

Mike Lewis: was, but Doug, come back to a couple of things that happened. Look, this is a strange year for basketball because most of my memorable moments seem to be from the woman's side of the bracket. That is clearly never happened before. But we had, remember, who was it? The, the Louisville player got into a verbal tiff with the Texas player.

Then who was it? Then there was another one where a player was assaulted in a handshake line. Then we had the best trash talking of all of college basketball from, a player from the University of Iowa, and then some massive trash talking.[00:08:00] you could say that the woman's tournament was a lot of fun, but because they sort of went a little bit ugly in some ways.

Doug Video: But that's sports. Like people, that's why they have a documentary on the Detroit Pistons, the Bad Boy Pistons. Like, it's like people, it captures people. I think you need a villain and I think, as

Mike Lewis: next year? I mean, if I'm

Doug Video: Caitlin Clark redemption arc next year. I mean, it's inevitable.

It's the movie, the Script's already written. I think that in order to have that perfect sports story, you have to have. A good villain, and that's what Michael Jordan had, and that was a huge part of his rise.

Mike Lewis: dog. Didn't we learn in the last dance that in fact, Michael Jordan was the

well, Jerry Krause was the villain in the last dance. of trash talking that turned out Jordan was doing

Doug Video: sure. But I mean, they certainly framed the pistons,and their kind of abusive form of play. Isaiah Thomas, all that, [00:09:00] but Angel Reese, what a villain she was. And what I, my hat's off to her, do I want my child to, to treat their opponents the way that she did?

Absolutely not. And that's what makes her a great, that's what makes her great for women's basketball. I think that without Angel Reese, without lsu, Shenanigans in that championship game? Are we talking about this? is women's basketball on the platform that it's on right now? So, I mean, it had everything, it had the perfect villain, it had the perfect hero.

and now Caitlin Clark is kind of viewed as this, like she's a martyr for her team and everyone respects her and hates L S U and Jill Biden came out and said she wants both teams to come to the White House, which receives some major negative feedback from Angel Reeves.

And it, it's just like, the story is so engaging. It's like, this is why reality TV is a thing when you have a story, when you have this drama between people tune in and [00:10:00] when you add sports and competition to the mix and it's all happening in real time. it's that much better. And so I mean, I think, I still think K, the W N B A has a huge opportunity.

Like if they can keep this rivalry going between Clark, I mean, even if it's fabricated, like if they can just get them in on it. But if they can keep this rivalry going, I think that the amount of interest is so much higher than your typical women's basketball that we've seen. and I think it's, I'm buying stock.

I'm not saying I think it's gonna be the nba, but I'm buying stock cause I think it is going up. Price. Price went up, Mike.

Mike Lewis: I think, look, I suspect it is, right? and I think over the last couple of years there has been a concerted effort, particularly from the media partners and some corporate partners to really push women's basketball at both the professional and the collegiate level. Caitlin Clark, look, I mean, this is one of these things where it's really kind of fasting to me as an academic, because like I said, she was kind of, the [00:11:00] game was delightful.

The trash talking was delightful. Is this enough to actually elevate the game going forward? Is this a breakthrough moment or is this something we forget about now? Let me, but back to Angel Reese, she was the 1, 2, 3, she was the fourth leading scorer on that team. I suspect that's part of the pushback in terms of the trash talking, that this is,essentially, I'm trying to think who the fourth leading scorer on the pistons would've been when Jordan would, but you know what I mean, that's part of the story too.

If someone's dropping 30 points on you, it's still kinda dominating the game when you're losing, and

Doug Video: But Mike, it's Patrick. Beverly. it's Patrick Beverly. he's a scrub, he was in the G League like for more time than he's been in the nba. Like he, I think he played for the Shanghai Nights or something. It's Patrick Beverly. And that's what, like with trash talk, it's like it doesn't matter.

It's so pesky when a, I'm not gonna say a bad player, but a lesser player [00:12:00] is the one talking the most trash. And that, I think that's what made Angel Reese such a villain. By the way. I think she's gonna cash out. I would've, I don't know. Cause like I'm like, maybe brands don't wanna associate with the bad guy, but maybe they do in Louisiana.

Like I could see her getting a big payday. LS, G's got that gymnast who's made more than any male athlete in college sports. And if I'm Angel Reese, I'm looking at her partnerships and going to them and saying, let's make a deal. Because, people know her. We're talking about her.

Mike Lewis: Well, and I will put this out there in terms of n i l. So, fascinating moment. Maybe a pivotal moment, an inflection point. But you know, my point on n i l up until now has been largely that it seems the way it's playing out is male athletes get paid for being in high profile roles and performing. So being the Alabama quarterback and winning a high, or winning a Heisman trophy will get you paid.

Female athletes. It seems to be coming from a very different place. And li you mentioned Libby, Don, she is the greatest example of that, of someone who's famous for doing flips on the beach,[00:13:00] builds up that following and then is allowed to cash in. frankly, Libby probably would've cashed in anyways.

Right. So it's not clear to me how,

Doug Video: the Cavender twins, like.

Mike Lewis: Same thing, right?

Doug Video: I'm piggybacking on what you're saying, but it seems like if they weren't college athletes, they would be influencers anyway, based on the fact that they're making TikTok dances and,it's like they're just kind of the classic influencer and they just so happen to be an athlete and they're allowed to be an influencer while they're an athlete.

and then they work the two together some, but I don't know how much value they're getting from being an athlete relative to a Stetson Bennett, who otherwise would not be a TikTok star.

Mike Lewis: but people are surprised by the point I'm putting out there, but they really shouldn't be because if you think about who the audience is, I mean, you use the word influence, who these athletes are influencing on both sides.

if you're playing quarterback at Alabama, you are influencing college football fans.

Right. [00:14:00] If you are, grow up and you're a gymnast and you do dances and flips or a basketball player, you're twin basketball players and you have this massive social media following of the young women that follow, that li live on TikTok, well, the influences in different audiences.

And so it should come from different places. So, for the, the woman's college basketball players, it'll be a good, it'll be an interesting thing to watch. Caitlin Clark may be the biggest star in the state of Iowa right now, so is she gonna collect a lot of local money? is Angel Reese gonna collect more money than the players on that LSU football team?

That's kind of, that's a tough one, right.

Doug Video: Yeah. Yeah. And, I don't know. we'll see. I see Caitlin Clark on like subway commercials. Like, I think she's like the face of women's sports at some point, whether it's now or later.

Mike Lewis: Doug, I'll say something else about her. on the court, it almost seems like she's got a strange emotional affect, right? But off the court, she's [00:15:00] incredibly well spoken.

Doug Video: graceful. Yeah.

Mike Lewis: So I think there's an incredible package there because, even, like I said, you did the, again, I don't even know what this stuff means, but big fan.

Doug Video: big fan of Caitlin Clark. Price went up. that'll be a story to follow next year and lost in the mix of women's basketball, which like, I never thought I would say this. I lost in that. And the men's tournament was, I think people kind of have talked about it like it was a snooze fest, like toward the end.

Like, UCONN destroyed everybody, but man, that San Diego State Final Four game, if San Diego State versus F A U, both teams, like the stake's gonna be higher. Both teams fighting for something that no one ever thought they could achieve. And seeing Lamont Butler have his Michael Jordan moment seeing those students.

In that student section, [00:16:00] they've been running these fandom 1 0 1 commercials. They don't need to explain anything, just show those students when that shot goes in and show the opposing fans when the shot goes in because absolute mayhem, absolute electricity. That was just pure March Madness. I think that game gave us everything.

And in my eyes, like, I don't know that I actually, I'll say I do know that the NCAA tournament is not a great indicator of who the best team in the country is for a season. it's just a fun mechanism for chaos. And that March Madness game, to me was the highlight of March, in the men's tournament.

and I mean, it doesn't get any better than that. And then as soon as this tournament ends, you turn on a sports center and you're like, oh man, we're done with all the excitement. N b a plans like next week,

Mike Lewis: Lamar

Doug Video: in season,

Mike Lewis: job,

Doug Video: like N F L draft coming up, [00:17:00] MLB season snuck up on us. The sports calendar does not let us down.

Mike Lewis: Let me say something about that, San Diego State crowd, because you sent me that video and I think you're gonna put it together on the YouTube. Yeah, that was textbook stuff, right? Because like I looked at that and I think, well, no one went to San Diego State to root for the basketball team, right?

And so this is a kind of a happy coincidence, right? So the basketball team catches fire, the students there sort of come to it, they gravitate to it because it's something hot on campus, a successful team, and suddenly they're all bonding around that. When you look at that video, the most of the guys don't seem to be wearing shirts

And so again, like it's kind of the equivalent of like, you've got some experience of painting up, right? It's like they start to adopt almost like this kind of tribal, these tribal customs of like they are the San Diego State

Doug Video: Aztecs,

Mike Lewis: Which, again, is that a problematic name probably going

Doug Video: everything's a problematic name, Mike.

Mike Lewis: But, and then the complete [00:18:00] joy in terms of like, they're just, they explode into joy simultaneously. It's like that's how communities are, fan communities are formed. That group of San Diego State students will be more engaged with the school going forward. They will donate more. They will, seek out San Diego state basketball games more than, other previous generations or cohorts of students.

That is thefandom 1 0 1 And it's the power of fandom, right? That is a unifier and it's just our beautifully illustrated.

Doug Video: Yeah. And I kind of want to see, I might try to solicit some research on this one. I want to see. The Cinderella team, Florida, Gulf Coast, like what is the next year change in applications to their school? I mean Alabama's of course always been a football powerhouse, but when Nick Saban came to Alabama, I remember like hearing that the a c t average was going up at the school and they, it's not like people there were getting smarter, it's just that they were attracting more people.

And that [00:19:00] happens at these schools, but especially for these Cinderella, because in, in basketball there's this unique ability to give such a small school, such a massive platform. I'm not saying San Diego State is such a small school, but I'm talking about like Florida Gulf Coast and some of these teams over the years, George Mason, does their application rate increase by 25% the next year?

Does it double? Like I have no idea, but I imagine the school is a huge beneficiary from it. And I think that might be part of the reason why some of these schools are investing in sports facilities and in sport. sports are such a investment and it doesn't really make sense when you look at attendance and those types of things.

But overall, to put the school on the map in that way, does provide quite a bit of value.

Mike Lewis: I can tell you that in, in some ways, there's not a lot of point to doing the research. People have been looking at that topic for a long time, and inevitably, part of the problem, I think is that, a lot of researchers wanna find a positive effect of sports and a lot of [00:20:00] research wanna find a negative effect of sports.

And so the body of research tends to be sort of very mixed and it kind of makes sense, right? if you think it all the way through, right? That yeah, if you are Alabama and suddenly there's this national championship quality team Yeah. application spike now, you know what I mean?

Strangely, Saban's run might have coincided with when the state of Georgia started to basically give scholarships to all the students to stay in state. And now a ton of Georgia students that can't get into uga go to Alabama. Right? So it can also be a complicated empirical problem. But the other, the other side of it is, and this is kind of what I suspect happens that sports only has like a magic when it's really good, right?

So, so if you think it through, like, if you are a school and you go from, let's say when a six and six football program to eight and six, you get nothing. But if you go from a school that's nine and three to a school [00:21:00] that's 11 and one, or 10 and two to 12, and oh, then you get something, right? So that magic only happens at the very top.

I, I, that's what I suspect is

Doug Video: Yeah. And I have to imagine also like kind of also countering my point, like for the, for these Cinderella teams, for every George Mason, there's a million

And you gotta remember Kennesaw States.

Mike Lewis: the coach automatically quits. Right. And moves up the

Doug Video: All right. All right. and usually that doesn't take 'em anywhere, like long term, you don't see them in the Final four anymore. Shaka Smart

Mike Lewis: But you know, Doug, I mean like a local story here, the state of Georgia has a number of schools that are trying to put themselves on the map through sports.

Doug Video: Georgia State, Kennesaw.

Mike Lewis: Kennesaw State is one where they wanna start playing at the highest level of football. They need to, grow their stadium to have, I think they said 15,000 in attendance, getting to the NCAA tournament.

I think those are fascinating case studies to, to watch, play out over the [00:22:00] course of the years. I, Georgia State, I think moved to the highest division of football here. It's a tough gamble. it's what a really daunting task. and in fact, it's kind of interesting, right, that they try and do it in the state of Georgia where I got news for you, there's a lot of people already harvesting the available Georgia talent, right?

Doug Video: Yeah. Yeah, that's certainly the case. And like I said, for every Florida Atlantic there's gonna be a million Kennesaw states like this year, who maybe if they made it past that first round, maybe they would've had that magical run and maybe their applications would be spiking like crazy and the school's value would be going up.

But it's kind of a, it's kind of a entry into the lottery, like if you become a D one men's program.

Mike Lewis: Since you grew up in Birmingham, the UAB Blazers seem like they have these occasional tournament runs, right?

Doug Video: Yeah.

Mike Lewis: get a sense that there's a, the excitement builds whenever UAB B has a nice run and, do kids [00:23:00] gravitate towards that school? is the

Doug Video: that Birmingham kids like uab, it's kind of got. It draws the elite medical minds. but it, undergrads, it's not really on people's radar. I was kind of different. I mean, I played basketball and as a kid, I pulled for u a b. There was a time a lot of people forget this.

There was a time when DeMarcus Cousins was gonna go play basketball at U a b. He's from Birmingham kid. He was saying he was gonna go there and until John Calipari hired at Kentucky, he was gonna be a U a B guy. And they had a squad at the time. And I was thinking, this is gonna be one of those teams, they're gonna make a final four.

And I wanted to go to U A B at one point as a kid because I was so. Into their basketball and that, and they would go on a sweet 16 run every couple years,or round a 32 run every couple years. Sweet 16 run once that I remember, and it definitely drew interest that I kind of [00:24:00] lost when their program took a step back at one point when they had a coaching change and they stopped making the tournament.

And so I can say firsthand that I was interested in a school that I otherwise wouldn't have been interested in, and I kind of wanted a reason to justify it. I think that's what we do with these sports things. Like if UAB b had this sports business program or something that I could use to justify like, oh, well I'm into that and that's kind of what I want to do.

And so, or some kind of production program or something, I would've, I probably would've gone that route. And with Georgia, like I look at it and I kind of know the same thing where it's like, Yeah, I justified like, well, they've got this good business school and they've got this good like media school, essentially, the journalism school, and those are the two things that I wanna study.

And so I justified it that way. But in reality, if the Georgia Bulldogs football team doesn't exist, like am I there? Like I, I can be honest with myself and say, that's a huge part of what, have me even looking at those programs in [00:25:00] the first place. And so that's how, I mean, that's how it works in my eyes.

Mike Lewis: I think you're right, Doug. what is, like, what is your major point of connection to? My major point of connection to Illinois is there's a football game on every. on every Saturday, and there's a lot of basketball games. And so that, that is something that, look, I'll always be honest with you, like, I kind of always wonder, teaching in a place like Emory, how it, how different it is, right?

Where you lack that unifier, right? Because like you, you can bark at a, you see someone in a Georgia t-shirt at a bar, you can bark at 'em, right? I can yell, I lll and suddenly we're together as a tribe. a lot of these kind of, private schools, like Emory kind of smaller schools, you don't have that.

And so the bonds have to come from a different place now, maybe it washes out, right? Because I don't know, Illinois has 40,000 undergrads and Georgia has 40,000 undergrads, right? And so it's, these are big, these sports powerhouses are big places. Okay. so the NCAA [00:26:00] tournament, the obvious big thing,but you made that point earlier. Sports calendar is always

Doug Video: Mm-hmm.

Mike Lewis: We've got, MLB starting to go, but, it's always fascinating to me, and again, this is one of our themes for the show.

The quarterback narratives never end right. Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rodgers still absolutely dominating the headlines. Hey, there was a strange clip of Tom Brady playing football on the beach with. the quarterback is the leading man of American sports and maybe of American culture. So we've been, continuing to go through the divisions, doing some kind of brief reviews.

Today our topic is the NFC North, so we're talking Kurt Cousins, Jared G, Jared, Goff, what is it?

Doug Video: Golf,golf.

Mike Lewis: Jared Goff. yeah, it is the curse of being a professor. I'm trying to keep so many names straight. then we've got Justin Fields [00:27:00] who actually finished fourth and in the third position. Who was the third in that division?

It is, oh, it's Aaron Rodgers from the Green Bay Packers.

Doug Video: Yeah. Yeah. well, Aaron Rodgers no longer for the Green Bay Packers.

Mike Lewis: Not officially, but seems to be, I mean, what's kind of surprising about that? Like, so, Aaron Rodgers, and we can start there. Aaron

Doug Video: I mean, that's been the big story.

Mike Lewis: Is an all time great and it is statistically a phenomenal player. Last year was one of his most disappointing seasons,of his career.

The Packers seem to have decided to move on to go with Jordan. Love. It sounds like Aaron Rodgers is trying to engineer the deal to go to the New York Jets. so again, we have this situation where you're in Aaron Rodgers. All you've got left is to make a pile of money and to build a legacy winning a Super Bowl in New York.

There's probably few paths to building a legacy better. I mean, maybe winning a Super Bowl in Dallas if that job became available. [00:28:00] What I think is interesting about the Rogers story is how quiet it's been. Like I haven't seen much speculation about what the Packers are trying to extract from the jets.

Doug Video: All I know is that negotiations are reportedly at a standstill, and I think that Jets fans are going, here we go again. We got our hopes up. when you said winning a Super Bowl in New York, I had to kind of hold back my smirk over here because the thought of the jets winning a Super Bowl in my lifetime.

It just feels ridiculous. and there's no reason that they don't have as good of a chance as any other team as far as like competitive balance in the league. They get a draft pick every year, like they can do it. But it's been so long since that franchise had success and there's been so many disappointments.

It's almost like talking about the Cleveland Browns. And so, kind of jumped the gun. It sounds like the media jumped the gun with Aaron Rogers to the Jets. I've heard speculation [00:29:00] about the 49ers talking about, and that was the first team that I thought would be a great fit for him in the sense that they are knocking on the door and they have been for so long.

And that is a very good football team. you plugged in a guy like Brock Purdy, who had no N F L experience and just about took him to the Super Bowl. And what happens when you plug in a veteran quarterback like Aaron Rogers? Unorthodox guy, I'm not gonna say, oh, he is this great leader.

It seems to be a different story than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in that regard, where there always seems to be some kind of disconnect between Rogers and the rest of the team. It's like he's on a different playing field than they are, but with that said, something's gonna give at some point he could, I could see this ending in him retiring.

I could see the Packers saying, we're not moving you, and he retires and nobody wins. That would be a very Aaron Rodgers way to go out. but [00:30:00] he's been, we always talk about Justin Fields, kind of like drama following him wherever he goes. These last couple years, Aaron Rogers, and if you go back, I don't know if you remember this, Mike, when Aaron Rogers was behind, Brett Favre, he was stirring the pot a little bit about wanting to get on the field and being frustrated, being dis He's kind of always been disgruntled, even though he's successful and, I see this either ending and Aaron Rogers retiring disgruntled, or the packers trading him somewhere.

He doesn't want to go to spite him. that's genuinely how I see it happening. And I don't know, there's, I don't know who has more power in this situation. I know that he's trying to force them to trade him to a team he wants to play for.

Mike Lewis: Well, I wonder how much of this is really kind of the curse of the Cleveland Browns have really created some problems in the quarterback market. And so if everyone thinks that they're going to get a couple of high draft picks, in addition to taking on a massive [00:31:00] salary, that's where the market is at.

And if you are, if you're Green Bay and you're saying, look, we are the key to the New York Jets winning a Super Bowl. if it, if he's worth a Super Bowl, then he's probably worth two picks and then paying 55 million in the salary. But you know, if you're an NFL pathologist and you're looking at this from a dynamic perspective, right, saying it's like, do we really wanna hook into a, I don't know how ra old Rogers is, 38 or 39, that are we gonna hook into 110 or $120 million, or $150 million over three years potentially, and give away multiple first round draft picks.

in the back of the head. It's like when we Sam Darnold And that didn't work out. And then we drafted Zach Wilson and that didn't work out. And Rogers is coming off of a tough year. it's gonna be tough to pull that trigger. I mean, and you mentioned San Francisco.

Aaron Rogers is one of my favorite athletes. I'm [00:32:00] always so afraid to talk about my favorite athletes because they tend to be the independent thinker. So it's Aaron Rodgers

Doug Video: Kyrie Irving.

Mike Lewis: and endorsing these guys is just inviting, some blowback. I wonder if San Francisco would wanna go within Aaron Rodgers, given some of his controversial positions and how liberal that team has tried to move in the post Kaepernick area.

So politics could play a role in some of this as well.

Doug Video: Yeah. And on the flip side, I don't know if there's another team. Like if I'm the general manager of the Jets, I don't know that I do this if I'm the general manager of the Titans, maybe. but the general manager for the Niners has seen his team come so close so many times and it is kind of like a Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos situation where it's like you've got a good defense, you've got a good offensive line, you've got Playmakers, you just need a quarterback who can win games and at the highest level.

I'm not saying their guys haven't won [00:33:00] games.

Mike Lewis: if Rogers is saying he wants New York, does every ever their general manager go, okay, Aaron has spoken, he's a prickly guy. He can be a difficult guy. I don't wanna, I wanna let Aaron do what Aaron wants to do. I don't wanna inherit a guy that's mad at me because he wanted to play in New York and suddenly we have a deal in San Francisco.

Doug Video: Yeah, I would certainly think along those lines, but also just like prickly guy aside, 38, 39 year old quarterback, 110 million in a couple draft picks. Unless it's winning you a Super Bowl, it's not worth it, period. That's my perspective. if you're not willing to roll the dice and you feel like this gives you the best odds you're ever gonna have at winning a Super Bowl, you don't make that trade.

It's not worth it to win 10 games for two years and give up pieces of your future.

Mike Lewis: Oh, and again, maybe it is if you're the Jets right, and you have not been to the Super Bowl since Super Bowl two [00:34:00] or three,

Doug Video: I just think like, one of the better Jets teams in my lifetime was Favre. I don't know if you remember this post-retirement, Brett Favre, he was on the cover of Madden as a Green Bay packer and he played for the Jets that year. They had to change, they had to print new covers of Madden with Photoshop Jersey zone cuz he hadn't played a game for the Jets yet.

And they were competitive. People were talking Super Bowl, they didn't do anything. And I almost, that's kind of how I see this going down. If Aaron Rodgers goes, I see it much like the Brett Favre where it creates some buzz. People start saying, Hey, are the, the jets legit? And he gets old and retires and they never win anything and the Jets or back where they started, except they have less draft picks to build from now.

Mike Lewis: Okay. looking at the standings for the NFC North, it's an interesting thing. And typically we have gone from the top of the division to the bottom. I think we'll just jump around on this one. It's an odd thing. It's an odd set of standings to look at where Green Bay actually finished third at eight and nine, and the Detroit Lions finished [00:35:00] second.

At nine and eight and you look at the quarterback play of the Detroit Lions and it was really very good.

Doug Video: Jared Goff,

Mike Lewis: So he,

Doug Video: he turned the corner.

Mike Lewis: you look at his stats and they are actually fairly phenomenal and in particular, I like to talk touchdowns to interceptions 29, tds to only seven interceptions. And so it does appear that he turned the corner and Detroit kind of turned the corner.

It's an interesting place though, that brand is so downtrod and so beaten down that you for, look to me, I forget about Detroit. I almost just sort of assume, well Detroit's gonna win four or five games

Doug Video: And they don't get the primetime spots except for Thanksgiving. Like I don't see them on TV so that it makes it easy to forget about them. Especially with a guy like Jared Goff. when Stafford was [00:36:00] there, Stafford was the number one pick as well, or I don't know if Goff is one or two or whatever, but yeah, so, but Stafford always had this allure to him, like the, he brought an audience.

There was this respect where it was like they have a legitimate top 10 top, a quarterback who very well would win Super Bowls with any other team. And we saw that in his first year on another team. so I think people kind of respected the Matt Stafford Lions, but Goff seems like a disappointment in la so he seemed like a rehabilitation project.

And very rarely, Mike, do we see these rehabilitation quarterbacks actually pan out.

Mike Lewis: wasn't Goff versus Wentz Am I remembering that wrong? or a late playoff

Doug Video: played in a Super Bowl. the first article that comes up for Jared Goff Super Bowl is Jared Goff had the worst game of his life on the biggest stage. so Jared Goff, pats [00:37:00] Brady.

Mike Lewis: Okay.

Doug Video: Yeah, that was Todd Gurley team for the Rams where arthritis and was practically, he was like MVP of the N F L, but he practically was unusable in the entire playoff run in the Super Bowl.

So tough time for the Rams, but it was also before the Rams totally ruined their uniforms, which I'm still mad about.

Mike Lewis: an interesting aside on golf is that when you look at where he's at in, in terms of his contract, he did a four year, 134 million deal. So he got paid. he's an unrestricted free agent after next, I guess he's got 23 and he is got 24, so he's right in the middle of that. But he's probably, you can imagine a scenario where Detroit is gonna have to make a decision, is he their franchise quarterback?

And that's an interesting decision for, coming outta Detroit if you're, but if you're going nine and eight and you're sniffing the playoffs, then do you do a, and again, you go back to what his [00:38:00] numbers were. And people are not thinking about Jared Goff as one of the top quarterbacks, but you could imagine him getting a deal that puts him right at the top of the N F L based on last year's production and based on where the lions are at as a franchise.

Doug Video: if you look at how much Daniel Jones got paid and his stats are. Probably about half of that in terms of touchdowns. if Daniel Jones had the season that Jared Goff had last year, I would be thrilled as a Giants fan and I would be saying a hundred percent franchise quarterback. So, I think we've gotta see if it was a one and done year.

there's been guys over the years who have one year like that where you're like, oh, this guy might be a top guy and then they remember who they are in the next season. And so we'll see what happens. But, this coming year, but I think Jared Goff, statistically is like a top 10 guy in, in 2022, which feels weird to say because like I said, these rehabilitation quarterback.

That's like a guy you almost never take, like you don't take Sam Darnold [00:39:00] on and say, oh, I think this guy's gonna turn it around. And Goff kind of had that same feel to him, but he actually turned it around. And so, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, who won that trade, Mike, or I don't know if it was a trade, but essentially a swap between the Rams who won a Super Bowl with Stafford and the Lions who seem to have found lightning in a bottle with Jared Goff.

Was that a win-win?

Mike Lewis: I think it was a win-win, right? I mean, when you think about where both those franchises were and look, I don't know what the long-term payoff to winning a Super Bowl in Los Angeles is. you might have a better sense in terms of, football has always struggled in Southern California, professional football winning a Super Bowl.

Well that's, that's the best thing you can do now when you turn around the next year and you have a disaster season. And I think Baker Mayfield get some starts for you. I, I don't know what kind of legacy you build, but if I'm Detroit, I'm absolutely thrilled with how this has turned out.

Doug Video: I think

Mike Lewis: potential playoff runs.

Doug Video: Yeah, and I [00:40:00] think, Detroit, they got a lot of value outta Matt Stafford and they let him go at an age where he's likely, we talk about the Ravens and Lamar Jackson and how, how often do running quarterbacks have their best years ahead of him at this age, after this many years of playing like Matt Stafford, his best years are likely in the past.

And so they move on to a guy whose best years are in front of him, and that's how many teams go, just constantly have a quarterback who's in his prime. That's a really good place to be if you're the Lions. And so I think the Lions certainly were a winner. They weren't gonna win Super Bowls with Matt Stafford.

I think it's a good deal for them. And for the Rams, part of me looks at it and says, a would they have won That team was so good. Would they have won a Super Bowl with Stafford or Goff? At quarterback and we'll never know that. But also like long term, did giving up a future franchise quarterback costs kind of the reputation of the Rams where they, like this year they had [00:41:00] such a terrible year and it's if it's like that moving forward under Stafford, it's like you gave up, your future for one good year in one Super Bowl.

But on the flip side to that, the Rams and Chargers are kind of an interesting duo of same city sports teams because there's always kind of like an alpha team and a beta team like the Lakers and Clippers or the and or the Giants and Jets. Like you go across the board and those teams move to LA At the same time, the Chargers are the team that have the top five quarter.

Mike Lewis: The brighter future it looks like.

Doug Video: They've got the brighter future. they've got the guy, they've got the top quarterback, in the city and one of the top quarterbacks in the league. And he's young and he's gonna be, I mean, I think both you and I expect the chargers to lock him in for the long term, sooner rather than later as they should.

And so for the Rams, I actually think, I don't know how much getting Stafford played into this, but winning that Super Bowl, [00:42:00] it kind of, my, my perception is that it established them as the alpha team in Los Angeles or the Chargers, even though they're viewed, even though they have the better quarterback, even though they probably have the brighter future.

They're viewed like the Clippers, they're like this kind of outsider team, like for people who aren't fans of the mainstream team. And the Rams became that mainstream team with that Super Bowl. And so I do think that it benefited the brand, that it benefited it, particularly in the competitive space that is Los Angeles, where you're trying to get that number one spot.

And I think the Rams got it. I don't know if they'll sustain it. The Chargers certainly pose a significant threat with Justin Herbert, and that's a story for another day, but very interesting swap of quarterbacks between Goff or Stafford. Rarely do we see these trades where it's like, wow, I actually think both teams are better off.

Mike Lewis: here's a hot take, Doug. I mean, looking at, Looking at [00:43:00] the, let's say Detroit being on the upswing and golf being, a couple more years under contract and, having, and again, sometimes we see quarterbacks actually improving a lot as they age, right? it's an interesting position, right, where, the game slows down with more reps and more experience.

I could imagine a scenario where Detroit, again, think this, think of all these parts is moving, Aaron Rodgers leaving the division, green Bay perhaps in Reil re rebuilding mode. Kurt Cousins, continue to sort of be Kurt Cousins and

Doug Video: Mediocrity.

Mike Lewis: I mean, above average.

Doug Video: Yeah.

Mike Lewis: And so you can imagine a scenario where suddenly Detroit has the best quarterback in that division and maybe they're, fighting with the Vikings for, for the top of that division next year.

I'd rather have, I mean, who are you taking? You taking

Doug Video: taking Justin Fields. Mike,

Mike Lewis: Okay.

Doug Video: I'm messing with you. Oh, I just wanted to bring him in the conversation,

Mike Lewis: Well, we'll get

Doug Video: No, I think,

Mike Lewis: It's [00:44:00] debatable,

Doug Video: it's debatable. Yeah. it's, with Goff younger.

Mike Lewis: Cousins, it's like he's at his ceiling and like, people forget, cousins had like a fringe MVP season this year.

I mean, he is, he played some good football this year and won a lot of football games and, also seen mock drafts where they're talking about Minnesota taking a quarterback, in one of the high,and again, sometimes with guys like Kirk Cousins, you get, maybe there's this tendency to get a little impatient, right?

It's like, cause remember he was the first with these kind of big money guaranteed quarterback deals, right? And kind of, kind of shocked the world. now he's done really what he, he's put the Vikings in great position. But again, it's, it is that fandom purgatory, right. Of you've done well.

Does anyone think you're gonna get over the hump and start bringing Super Bowls back to Minneapolis?

Doug Video: it's the Mark Richt. Thing where, for lack of a better term, where your own success brings about expectations that maybe [00:45:00] would not have been realistic without you having that Richt over Georgia at a pretty low spot and got them to a consistent 10 win a season type, resume. And the fans were sick of it.

And I feel like that's Kirk Cousins, like what were the Vikings doing before Kirk Cousins? and when did they have a quarterback who was in the running for mvp? When did they have a top receiver in the league and receiving yards? And when were they making runs in the playoffs? Like the, of course they didn't this year.

but when were they making the playoffs? Like the Vikings? I think fans get spoiled. I think they get spoiled from what they have. Cause they always want to be improving. And so when someone gives 'em what they wanted, they say, that's not enough. I want the next thing. and if you go a year or two and you don't give 'em that next thing, Then it's like, all right, bye-bye.

Like, gimme someone who can. And so I don't think Kirk Cousins is like on the hot seat or anything, but you know, I think that would be more of like a Jordan Love, Aaron Rodgers situation where they're,

Mike Lewis: I think it's exactly what it is, right? This like kind of [00:46:00] inevitable transition planning, being the responsible kind of gm, bringing in this cost controlled quarterback, Kirk Cousins, maybe a lack of excitement, a lack of, I don't know, this lack of, for some reason he's never kind of resonated, I think, is that like truly marquee quarterback?

Has he, it's always

Doug Video: He started to, when he put on that chain on the plane and was doing his little dance ants,

Mike Lewis: I.

Doug Video: he started feeling like, oh, is this guy like an alpha male? Is he the guy? And you liked that. That was classic. That was, he's had his moments. Man, if I'm a Vikings fan,I'm all in on Kirk. I'm, I think of him like, I think of him like Matt Ryan and I think that, I think the Falcons.

With a better defense. Could have won a Super Bowl with Matt Ryan. I think

Mike Lewis: I'm gonna, I wanna drill down on this. I'm gonna, you're the Minnesota fan. Kirk Cousins is your guy. I totally

Doug Video: my guy. Yep.

Mike Lewis: He's the guy. He's been successful. We've won games.

Doug Video: You can't get, you can't get greedy. You can't get

Mike Lewis: if someone says no, but that the, but fans can, right. If someone sort of taps [00:47:00] in the shoulders says, but what about if I'd give you Lamar Jackson instead, does

Doug Video: be exciting.

Mike Lewis: quick?

And again, it's almost more like a thought experiment. Does your loyalty waiver quickly

Doug Video: I don't, if I'm the Vikings, I don't want Lamar Jackson. I don't want Aaron Rodgers straight up.

Mike Lewis: I don't even, no.

Doug Video: I don't. Do you think the diminished, like the,

Mike Lewis: you don't wanna have trades within that division,

Doug Video: well, do you think I know, but I'm, this is of course a thought experiment. Do you think the marginal wins they're gonna get with Aaron Rodgers is gonna be worth giving up a couple years of Kirk Cousins like giving that Kurt Cousins is younger.

Mike Lewis: well I was looking

Doug Video: Because like maybe it would be, maybe they would win the Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers.

Mike Lewis: Kirk Cousins has about 10 years in the league, and I was looking at the contract situation, and it looks like they've been renegotiating his contract to, create some, to create some essentially cap room for the last couple of years. So Kirk Cousins is listed as an [00:48:00] unrestricted free agent in 2024. So you know, for the Vikings. This again, it's like with where the quarterback market is, because look, I totally understand like the long term, sort of the historical perspective is Kurt Cousins is our guy in Minnesota. the guy in that city for a decade potentially.

But now with where the quarterback market is signing these guys suddenly becomes very different, right? Where it's like, now these guys are talking about Kirk Cousins. What does he get on his next deal? 150, 175 million is a four year deal. Does he, depending on how things go with the, the Lamar Jackson type free agency, does he go out there for this next deal and you think he's been in the league for 10 years, he'll be coming off of season 11, it might be his last big deal.

So cousins could be an example where, The realities of contracts and the quarterback market shift the dynamics. So Minnesota does start to think about what [00:49:00] is potentially next

Doug Video: Yeah, and I think it, I think at that point next year it will be a kind of Lamar, Jackson type situation where it's like you, you look at it a little differently when you're looking at a new contract and when it's a, quarterbacks are tough because they get better as they age to a certain point, and then it drops off.

And I'm sure you could do some kind of like chart as to where they drop off on average. but Aaron Rodgers like, do I want to sign Aaron Rodgers to a five-year deal tomorrow? No. Do I want to Kirk Cousins though, he's like one of the, it's same with Lamar Jackson, where you're like, He's still playing at his peak.

Lamar not, but Kirk is, but it's like, how long do you expect that to last? And am I gonna pay him, like he's gonna do that for the next five years if I think he's only gonna do it for the next year, or if, I think this last year was probably the best year I'll ever have, and it's downhill from here. So it becomes more similar to the Lamar Jackson situation in a year.

who again, it's, that's [00:50:00] been quiet, not to get on a tangent, but Lamar Jackson, what's happening with, it's like a cold war in the N F L right now with Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rodgers, nothing's really happening, but behind closed doors, there's a war going on and these guys are trying to make moves.

I don't know,

Mike Lewis: And they're thinking about the

Doug Video: the, yeah, the draft, I feel like the draft is gonna be what triggers some things to finally happen because people are gonna want picks and they're gonna, they're gonna make moves.

Mike Lewis: Okay, Doug, the last guy in this division, and I don't even really wanna talk about Justin Fields much anymore. I feel like we've kinda, he's this incredibly fascinating player. Maybe not so much on the field, but from a media perspective, he's been absolutely fascinating to me for forever.

at Georgia, at Ohio State, the pre-draft run up in, in Chicago, statistically again, it, it continues to absolutely fascinate me. Some aspects of his game are absolutely [00:51:00] terrible. 17 touchdowns, 11 interceptions last year it. and again, it's like there, there can be again, he's two years into the league, we often see a lot of improvement.

There's still reason for hope in Chicago. I kind of think the things that they're grasping onto in Chicago, the spectacular running plays is a little bit of a mistake. but Fields is, the bears are lo the bears that they've decided to trade away that first pick and not take Bryce Young.

So the Bears or maybe they didn't receive the right kind of offers for fields that they thought they could get. fields is the, fields is wedded to the bears, to that general manager, to that coach. It continues to be a story where he'll get a lot of attention, a lot of press. I don't think the Bears are gonna win a lot of games.

Doug Video: I don't think they're gonna win a lot of games, but I will say I'm still, I understand why Bears fans still have hope in Justin Fields because I look at what happened, like, I pegged fields as a [00:52:00] better Jalen he prospect, I was like, he's like but he's got a better arm.

He's faster, he's more accurate, he's more of a quarterback, like he's a more developed quarterback. Passer. And I look at what happened with Jaylen Hertz this year going into the season. A guy who we didn't know if he would be a franchise quarterback, and now it seems like he's gonna break the bank. When his time comes to get paid.

And Justin Fields, I don't know if there's any reason to expect him not to take a turn in year three, we saw Trevor Lawrence do it in year two. fields. This will be his first year of continuity as far as being in the same system. He still has all the tools to me, like legitimately. if you go back to the draft where he slipped a little bit, the big knock on him was like his, medical stuff like that, that he had seizures or had the potential to have seizures or something along those lines.

And it was kind of the thinking was he's a future MVP of the league if he's playing, if his medical issues don't get in the way of him playing, [00:53:00] but there's a risk there. And so it's like that hasn't been an issue. Like there's been nothing permanently damaging to his career, in my opinion. I just think that like you use them the right way in the right, I would want 'em, I would want, if I'm the Eagles and they're like, oh, we could either re-sign Hertz or Fields.

I'd probably take Hertz for his leadership, but I think he could plug fields right in and be just as successful. I really do. And so I, it's weird cuz it's like, I don't love the guy, but I believe in his talent and we'll see if just raw talent is enough to make a big career as a quarterback or not. and I think he's gotta work on some other things like his body language.

I think when the team, when things aren't going great, that is a huge red flag to me in a quarterback when they're just mopey. And I see that with fields a lot and I don't like that. And that's what you don't see with Jalen Hertz. And so I think he's got things to work on, but the talent is still there.

He's still young, he's still malleable. And if I'm that coaching [00:54:00] staff like.

Mike Lewis: And Doug, this is why I love this guy, and I love this conversation. I mean, I, I like listening to you because you're not,you're right. I mean, the physical tools are all there. you mentioned that he has the physical tools to be the MVP of the league, and so it ends up being this again, he is gonna be this absolute lightning rod.

For as long as he is in Chicago and in particular, until that team turns it around, I can't wait to, and again, it's like, sometimes I forget how much I, in some ways I've been this huge naysayer of fields, right? But I will always watch a Bears game and I cannot wait to see what his year three is.

Doug Video: he continues to be this absolutely fascinating player to me. I will say one thing from an analytics perspective, cuz this is something that I've been thinking about for a while. So fields gained 1100 yards last year. I cannot, I'm gonna make a confession to you, Doug. I can't figure out how to include rushing yards into quarterback metrics[00:55:00] It's becoming more important,

Mike Lewis: I, okay.

Doug Video: like look at hurts.

Mike Lewis: I feel like it's becoming more important all the time. Right? But here's my problem with it, right? So, we can look at, we can look at a quarterback, just like the intuition behind this. And if I tell you a quarterback, has 40 touchdowns and five interceptions, you know that team won a lot of games, right?

you just do. Right? the correlation is very strong. But if I tell you a team had a quarterback that rushed for 750 yards or a thousand yards, you have no idea how that team performed. So, to parse out the role of rush rushing yards on, quarterback performance, and therefore team performance ends up being essentially impossible because it seems like sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Doug Video: That's a really interesting point that I hadn't considered. But [00:56:00] Justin Fields is a guy I would, I will say that I think he has the potential to be a pure pocket passer. You take the running ability, like let's say he gets a little bit slower, he gets banged up as his career goes on. I really think he has the potential, and I'll say this, nobody would trade for Justin Fields right now if they could trade the same assets for the number one pick.

But with that said, I think if Justin Fields had come out in this year, if he had been in this class with this group of quarterbacks, I think he's the number one pick. I think he would've been the number one with his production in college and his physical attributes, because Bryce Young is right now kind of the guy, and it's like the knock on him his size and his measurables fields had largely the same performance in college.

And he played incredibly well in the playoff, against, I don't know, l s u and against, Clemson and I, people were, I mean, the only knock on him was his physical health. And so I don't know, but I think he might've, I think in this class he might [00:57:00] go number one if he's like in that same class with Bryce Young and Will Leviis,

Mike Lewis: Would you make a wager with me on whether or not, Justin Fields throws for 20 touchdown passes next year?

Doug Video: Yeah. Mike, will you buy Justin Fields jersey if he does

Mike Lewis: Okay. No, I mean, again, love the guy in some ways. The player I'm most fixated on in terms of the modern NFL for a lot of different reasons, the media attention, the physical talent, the style of

Doug Video: spectacular style? Yeah. High.

Mike Lewis: But you know, like, again, the highlights of, breaking all these rushing records, 1100 yards or quarterback, unheard of.

But does it translate to being anything that anyone that, that does it translate to being a successful team? So it's again, the quarterback position will always excel in Justin Fields. It seems like he's gonna be one of the top 10 guys to watch, even if he's winning three games a year,for the next several seasons to see how this whole [00:58:00] thing evolves.

Doug Video: Mike, quick thought experiment. You're the Chicago Bears. you get a blank slate and you can either sign Justin Fields for the next five years or Lamar Jackson for the next five years.

Mike Lewis: I take Lamar Jackson.

Doug Video: Oh, wow.

Mike Lewis: And you know what's funny about it? and I think. In some ways, I'm getting caught up in a standard bias in this. You mentioned fields, body language. I think that has always been the side of fields that has pushed me from being a doubter to an extreme doubter. Is it's always seemed like the off the field stuff that off the field personality stuff is not what I would want in a, in my quarterback.

And I got none of the, I

Doug Video: Nothing on Jackson?

Mike Lewis: dunno, maybe something on Lamar Jackson in terms of him not showing up to that playoff game. But in general, if you're paying Lamar Jackson, he, I get the sense that he's a warrior that's gonna go all out for you, every down. That if you have the relationship with [00:59:00] Jackson, that is fair on both sides.

I don't think he's ever quitting. I haven't seen that from fields at Georgia or at Ohio State. Sort of protesting against, the covid lockdown because he wanted to show his death. That has always been the, that has always I think, been the thing, I don't like him statistically, I don't like rushing quarterbacks, but that has always been the thing that I think, and again, I will fully admit that I could have some sort of bias and I might be overexaggerating the importance of those effects.

But the, it's hard to resist those kind of gut feels. So, Lamar Jackson.

Doug Video: All right. There we have it. There we have it.

Mike Lewis: Okay everyone. So, thanks for listening and we'll be back next weekend. As always, more content at www dot



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