We kick off this show with a discussion of perhaps the least predictable NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament of all time. Supported by data from Goizueta Business School student Adrian Thierry, we analyze how COVID played a part in college basketball parity in 2022-2023. We also leverage Adrian's research toward predicting 2023 Final Four viewership.
In the episode's second half, Professor Lewis continues his analysis of NFL quarterback storylines with a look at the NFC East... and we explore one trade scenario that could shake up the division.
According to ESPN, only 37 of 20,000,000 brackets (.000185%) picked the Final Four correctly
Multiple freshmen phenoms struggled in the big dance: Brandon Miller (Alabama SF FR) went 8/41 from the field and 3/19 from 3 in the tournament. Nick Smith Jr (Arkansas SG FR) went 2/10 against Kansas. Keyonte George (Baylor SG FR) shot 3/19 in the tournament.
The 2023 Final Four will feature ten 5th year seniors and four 4th year juniors.
Mike Lewis 0:08
Welcome, everyone. Welcome to the Fanalytics Podcast Mike Lewis Doug Battle brought to you by Emory's marketing analytics center. Doug your lighting looks better than mine today.
Doug Battle 0:19
Think it's just my face Mike.
Mike Lewis 0:20
Maybe it's the allergies?
Doug Battle 0:23
Just kidding. I got that pep in my step because it's the final four week and I'm glowing Mike
Mike Lewis 0:32
Eatwell shot or something. Okay, so it is final for week Doug very different from last year's final for last year's final four was Kansas, North Carolina, Villanova and Duke this year. I know for our some other guys.
Doug Battle 0:50
I know. Yeah. Some other guys. Right when I think that I changed my strategy up because I have this habit of always picking the craziest scenarios wanting to be the one person that picked it. And there's been so many years like last year where it's Villanova and Kansas and Duke and UNC where you're like, you know what, maybe it is the one in two seats and that's how I'm gonna win the bracket. So this year I went heavy on that. And I'm not alone though. Mike. Only 37 of 20 million ESPN brackets are have a perfect Final Four. And I'm not saying that's a perfect bracket. I'm saying a perfect Final Four. So that's point 00018 5%. Who picked FAU UConn San Diego State and Miami and their final four. I'm assuming each of those people made about 72 brackets.
Mike Lewis 1:34
I can't even imagine that there any with that final four. Yeah, yeah.
Doug Battle 1:39
So we got three teams that are in their first Final Four ever. And then UConn, which is like UConn is kind of a staple. But I mean, it's been since 2014, since they made a big run in the tournament. And so I don't think anyone expected UConn to make the run that they have. FAU is going to play in front of more people in the Final Four than they've played in front of the entire season. If you add up all the games and their home stadium, San Diego State another one I know them because of Kawhi Leonard. But you know, not necessarily a team that anyone was really high on going into this in Miami as a team that trailed Drake 56 to 53 in the first round with two minutes left was not the face of the ACC, you know, not a team that ran their conference this year. And they made it to the Elite Eight last year. That's that's a team that seems to turn it on come tournament time. So one of my takeaways and you know, I'm not going to take credit for this. Adrian theory Emory student sent me over some numbers between these four teams, Mike, there are 10/5 year seniors, and there are 4/4 year juniors. So there's a bit of a COVID effect and this year's tournament, where and I think we saw this in college football with 25 year old Stetson Bennett kind of running the show, where there's some level of parity that comes from the smart vote. Of course, this isn't this isn't college football that I'm talking about here is with college basketball. Some of these smart teams have those upperclassmen where you have the 2423 24 year olds competing against 18 year olds at Kentucky and maybe that gives that levels the playing field a bit. And you know, teams like FAU teams like San Diego State, I have a better shot this year. Maybe we should have seen this coming.
Mike Lewis 3:34
Look, I'm gonna bet I'm going to admit that I got something wrong, right. When I was going down, I thought we're gonna see this concentration of power. Now, you know, when NFL and the in the transfer portal was was relaxed, I thought we were going to see extreme movement towards the bluebloods and both the elite schools. I think we have seen them in football. I mean, it's relatively new, but it seems like we're seeing that solidify in college football, but not at all in college basketball. And it is it's a very college basketball has something strange going on. Right. And I mean, you as a Georgia fan have seen you know, during Tom kriens, disastrous time in Athens, you know, they were probably had the most folks transferring in and out every year. But this is everywhere. Now. I think everyone is like ready to lose three to four guys and bring in three to four guys every year. And so is this in again one year kind of a blip of a data point. But are we moving towards this where college basketball has this set of rules makes college basketball all about parody? Well, it makes college football all about sort of dominant programs that are the brands that are locked in and will always be competing for the college football title. I'm not sure.
Doug Battle 4:57
Yeah, I'm not sure I mean college football I think we know No, we're not seeing this in college football, we're not seeing Oh, you know, Sanford is getting some upperclassmen and therefore they're able to compete with Georgia. Like that doesn't happen in that sport. But with basketball, you know, a lot of these freshmen, these freshmen phenom, so which is really what it's all about when you're talking about the talent like the kind of lopsided recruiting, these guys are tending to disappear in the tournament. This year. Brandon Miller at Alabama, one of the maybe the top college basketball player this year 28 points across three games in the tournament, he went eight for 41 shooting, and three for 19 from three. And so and you look across the board, like Nick Smith, Jr. at Arkansas, he went to for 10 against Kansas. That's another top prospect Kiante George at Baylor, shot three for 19 and the tournament. And so, you know, I think that teams that are relying too heavily on these younger players, who maybe don't have the composure of some of the upperclassmen that we see at like FAU San Diego State UConn in Miami. I think that that's what's giving parity. And I got those numbers from Adrian theory again, trying to discern whether the tournament is a good indicator of NBA success looking over the years seeing is this you know, with the NFL, we look at we talked about the Parcells rules and the quarterbacks? Are they winning games in college? Are they playing enough years? Are they playing with basketball? I don't know that there's a set standard of rules for determining that. And so something I've been curious about is like, do the scouts do they put too much emphasis in the tournament? Do they look at a guy and say, Wow, he really came alive in the tournament. He's got the clutch gene and, and run with it and draft him too high? Or do they lead off on a guy because he had a poor outing in the tournament and didn't show up in a big game. And that player you know, is just a player was always going to regress to the mean. And so that's something I'm looking at this year with a guy like Brandon Miller does he fall in the draft after disappearing in the tournament? Kiante George Nick Smith, Jr. and Adrian raised a good point to the contrary. There's been plenty of examples of these top prospects who perform very well in the tournament. Kevin Durant. We talked last week about Anthony Davis you know DeMarcus Cousins Chris Paul acromial, Carmelo Anthony Kevin Love you can go down the line. There's been plenty of success stories, Stephon curry, a guy who really put his name on the map school to the map
Mike Lewis 7:31
I think you have to look at the sort of different eras and all that yeah right. Yeah, there's there's an iconic picture of Michael Jordan still and you know it says the Jordan Brand continues with a movie a movie of his a movie what is that as I called it a sentiment great
Doug Battle 7:50
movie about his shoes movie about his shoes right
Mike Lewis 7:53
and but I always said the first movie
Doug Battle 7:55
about his shoes like Mike Yeah, I just think of you know
Mike Lewis 8:00
the picture of like him cutting down the net right? And it's like, you know, so we've gone through that era where tournament success was was everything to you know, the the era where you know, people went straight from high school to the to the pros to the the one in dalens And you know, as you're talking I pulled up one of the mock drafts I think this is from NBC Sports and you know, their number one projected player is is when be you know, the French player. Yeah. Then they have Scott Henderson playing G league Ignite. Yep. Then you've got Amen Thompson from overtime elite. It's and it's only when you get to brand new Brandon Miller it in Alabama four and then number six is a as a as a player from from from Houston. So you know, I suspect that we've also seen a rapid hollowing out of the you know, the NBA with some of the G league stuff has rapidly hollowed out college basketball on top of the again the the inflicted level transferring in college basketball at this point is just strange. Yeah, I mean that needs to reach some sort of equilibrium because it's not doing anyone any favors it's not doing the players favors it's not doing the programs flavor favors it's not doing the the sport the industry any favors. Doug, I looked it up here as well that excuse me, allergy season that that last year's Duke, North Carolina game, which, you know, special circumstances right of Coach K's final, final game, Drew 17 point 6 million people. And then the championship game was about 16 or 17 million people. What do you think this feeling of forums?
Doug Battle 9:55
I don't it's like I there's two sides to it because on the one he And you don't have those UNC Duke fan bases, those staples, which by the way, I think those schools spend a lot of resources trying to recruit the scoot Henderson's of the world. And I think it's killing them to be competing against the G league to be competing against foreign leagues, and pour your resources and your time and energy where you could be recruiting a top college level player, but you're going after a professional level player, and they end up deciding to go to the pros. And now you're stuck having to take the second pick of the college players. And so I think that's part of what's going on. But with those schools out of the mix, someone like me that doesn't have a dog in the fight. I'm actually more interested. I'm more interested in the final four this year, because one of FAU UConn San Diego State in Miami is going to win a national championship.
Mike Lewis 10:53
Let me let me put something out there and you can react to it. So here's where I think the structure of college basketball fandom looks like you've got the Got Your diehards. And I think you used to be kind of in the diehard territory where it's like, you know, I got a team, my team is Duke, my team is UCLA. I also, you know, hate Kentucky, this kind of this kind of individual that that Pays Attention all year, or largely pays attention all year, then you've got this this group of people that is all about the brackets, right? Sports, gambling, there's nothing better for increasing engagement. Suddenly, I've got a little bit. It's not even the dollars, right? There's a competition along the lines. I'm at the office, family bragging rights. And you know, in the first day of the tournament, it's great, right? It's like it's built for engagement against Cinderellas. And then maybe I got well, and maybe those are the two sort of core fan bases two that are going to come out for for this. And so if everyone's bracket is broken, you know, are they still coming out for this? Yeah. And if you know the the big dogs sort of the glamour brands are gone. And look, the look do brings Duke fans, it also brings folks that want to see Duke lose. They hate Duke Yeah, it's like going abroad. Yeah, I want to see FAU be Duke, right to win a championship. So again, just just a production projection. Where do we come in relative to last year with sort of this iconic college basketball figure 1012. It'll be interesting to see.
Doug Battle 12:27
And it'll be interesting to see something that I've always I've always lost interest as the tournament goes on. Because I don't have a dog in the fight. And so your bracket in those first two rounds is at its best, you have a you have a dog in the fight in that sense. And then the Cinderella's tend to burn out come the sweet 16 After those first few rounds. So I've always been a proponent of the first two rounds being the best part of the basketball season and I lose interest I kind of tune out come the Elite Eight and less like Virginia or some some team that I have some sort of tie to is in it or like you said do if I want to see them lose to UMBC or St. Mary's or whoever, whatever team is in there. And, and so you know, but Adrienne brought up another statistic for me, that kind of makes me interested in the final for this year. And it's that the the average round point differentials, I was telling him I was saying, it seems like the games are more of blowouts as the tournament goes on, which is kind of counterintuitive. Because when a 16 is playing a one, you expect that to be a blowout. And then when a one is playing a two, you expect that to be a close game. But it seems like the Final Four we've seen more blowouts. In this year, it's felt like the Elite Eight, but it's actually not the case this year average point differential. And each round first round is 11.78 second round 10 or 11.2 5/3, round 10.25 and elite eight 9.75. And so in that sense, it's like there's more likely to be a buzzer beater or overtime, are they the type of game that causes a lot of buzz on social and then causes people to tune in? That's another element where just the closeness of the games can draw interest. So there's kind of a push and pull here. And what we'll find out next week, I definitely want to look at the numbers after the Final Four and see kind of where we came in. But like you said, you know, it's not going to be as high as it was for Duke UNC. Not gonna happen.
Mike Lewis 14:33
It just can't happen. Right. Yeah. And I mean, that's, that was sort of magic that I mean, coming out of COVID That was really about the best case scenario for for college, basketball dev Duke versus UNC. This year. Again, I'm like, in some ways, I'm just like struggling to get my mind around it. I will I'm absolutely going to be fascinated by the way this number come Then on the TV ratings, I mean, in a way, it's kind of, it's kind of sad that I'm more interested in the number of the TV ratings than I am in, in sort of who's going to walk away with this championship. Duck. I can't even imagine a scenario where a school called Florida Atlantic University wins the NCAA tournament.
Doug Battle 15:17
You know, the funny thing about Florida Atlantic is they're technically the Cinderella at this point, even though that was a 30 win team and the regular 30 Plus, I think, like 32 wins or something in the regular season, but they're technically the Cinderella. People don't like FAU because they don't act like they've been there before. And they rub a lot of people the wrong way, and how they win. I think a lot of people just say, hey, they're lucky and they think that they're good. And they're kind of that team and so I know quite a few people who want to see them humbled. Maybe they're just bitter because FAU is a team that busted their bracket or knocked their team out of the tournament. But kind of an interesting Cinderella in the sense that it's not like George Mason where the whole country is uniting around FAU right now I don't know that the country's uniting around any one team or player it's more of just kind of a general interest and maybe that's going to be detrimental to the to the ratings that you're talking about. But FAU being in the Final Four that's a schoolwork I think a lot of people probably before the tournament didn't know they had division one sports
Mike Lewis 16:23
not at all right? I mean and again you'd like go through the list of the NCAA champions that have occurred it and think about what's going on with college football. You can have a San Diego State winning a national championship could have a Florida you know in FAU you know, one of the things I look I'm nothing but rooting for those schools. Oh, because I love
Doug Battle 16:43
not want to see UConn or Miami win this No. Oh, in no way.
Mike Lewis 16:48
But you know as like that's and I want to see what happens next. Right because I mean, in terms of all the Cinderella's we've had over the years. They never get it all the way done. Do they? I mean, I don't know. Sort of the closest thing or bond is to have actually won it. bottler. Okay,
Doug Battle 17:05
Wyler do Gordon Hayward quarters shot at the end of the game, RIM doubt would have won the game against Duke would have been the greatest moment in sports history. And they were that close. Brad Stevens is the coach. So that's the closest I've seen. But yeah, George Mason fizzled out UNBC fizzled out. I mean, every year, there's a team and they, you know, they tend to fizzle out at the very latest in the Final Four round and so FAU again, this is a this isn't like a team that didn't win games during the season and snuck into the tournament. They dominated Conference USA, which, to that point, like, I just want to say, Conference USA should get more than one spot in the tournament. Because every single year, the one team from Conference USA that makes it goes on a run, they at least make the round of 32 and pull an upset in the first round. This year was Florida Atlantic. I'm a UAB guy, I grew up in Birmingham, I used to go to all UAB games, I always thought they were the best basketball program in the state of Alabama, which at the time, they definitely were now probably not the case with obviously with Alabama and Auburn, ramping up their basketball programs. But UAB had a year this year and a team that a lot of people in Birmingham thought was capable of going on a march run. And unfortunately, due to you know, definitely a top 64 team in the country, but due to the structure of the tournament. conferences like Conference USA, even if they have a top four team in the country in their conference, they only get one bid. And that second team, even if they're like the number 35 team, they're not going to get a shot. And that's part of it. March Madness that's a little frustrating for those mid majors where the regular season doesn't really matter. All that matters is the conference tournament, because the winner of that is going to go to March Madness. And I know UAB had a season a couple years back where they actually didn't have a great season, went on a run in the tournament, won their Conference USA tournament and won the first round of March. And you know, FAU was probably the other team that got left out that probably had 28 wins in the season that year or however many. And so, you know, it's conferences like that I think we learned in the tournament, maybe we're putting too much weight into the big 10 and giving them too many teams. And maybe conferences like Conference USA aren't getting enough love.
Mike Lewis 19:23
I don't really have a lot of response to that. Yeah, it's it because, you know, it really does speak to the economics of the to the economics of the sport into you know, the level of competitive balance the economics of the sport. Not just the economics of the sport, but the nature of the the nature of and importance of brands to to college sports. And it seems like but even if you're saying that and like I get the perspective, it seems unimaginable that the big 10 gets left out of anything. Right or the SEC
Doug Battle 19:58
Mike Lewis 20:03
But, you know, I think, you know, just when I think about how this stuff I mean, there was a real beauty, you know, in some ways when college basketball and college football's brand equity were built, and probably more so college basketball. It was, you know, this stuff is built over generations. And so you think about, you know, I think about like, when I was, you know, grew up in Chicago, the Paul's in the mark hats, and the loyal is in you know, these these places had nice little basketball programs. And, you know, sometimes like DePaul had a great basketball program for for a while. And they go from independence to being in conferences and with all the conference realignment, it's like college basketball, I guess, in some ways, kind of feels like it's all shook up to me. Like you started talking about Conference USA, you Conference USA. I actually had to look it up to see who was in it. Yeah. So it's, it is a, you look at it, and all I can think about is like, well, if I'm putting together this conference, I can imagine the steps they're going through of trying to get some regional, you know, to try and hit certain markets to kind of to have a decent footprint and also have enough kind of, like schools and cities like, well, we got Birmingham with UAB. But it's it's a tough uphill battle at this point. When you think about the utter dominance of the big 10. You know, going out and getting, look looking forward, the big 10 is adding you USC and football and UCLA and basketball, right? And of course, they're reading them in both sports, but you get what I'm saying is the the consolidation, look, at least in college basketball, they let they let you know, they left Florida, Atlanta Animesh ever shot, right?
Doug Battle 21:43
Yeah, they give them a shot. And you don't see that in college football, maybe in the future. Of course, I don't think it would fare the same way in college football. And I think we all know that. But with basketball, I guess my point is, at what point do when we're doing strength of schedule. It's usually, essentially, if you trail it back at roots and preseason rankings, which aren't really based on anything, and it's kind of more based on perception of conference, and the big 10 has kind of over the last couple years had this perception of elite, when maybe it hasn't performed that well in the tournament. And, you know, some conferences that have this perception is tiny and minuscule and insignificant, actually translate really well when they're playing against, you know, elite teams from other conferences. And so I'm just curious if at any point, somebody takes a step back, and it's like, maybe we're, maybe we're ranking them wrong from the get go. And that's kind of skewing our views of these teams. And teams like Florida Atlantic, who, like I have said many times won over 30 games in the regular season. Maybe it wasn't just because their competition was terrible. Maybe they actually were playing teams that were more on par with, you know, and I'm not saying their their competition is as good as a big 10 schedule, but I'm just saying maybe that maybe it's closer than we think. And maybe some of those other teams should be should get a look as well. Because clearly, you could be the number five team in the country right now, and not be in the tournament if you're in Conference USA.
Mike Lewis 23:14
Well, Doug, and at this point, I have to think we're having a reasoned conversation, you know, we're being analytical thinking about the, the incentives and the structures, but you know, then I have to catch myself and go, Yeah, but last year it was. And Kansas and the conclusion was that, you know, all this all this well, for Portal and solidify the control of the power players this year with a very different groups, say, San Diego, Florida, Atlantic, you know, UConn that, you know, so let's, let's just watch it play out, I guess.
Doug Battle 23:53
Yeah. And I also want to piggyback on that and say, I kind of have the opinion that this year is an outlier, which I mean, we all know that. But specifically in regards to those COVID, Senior the fifth year, seniors, that is such an advantage. And I saw it like watching Georgia football this year. And kind of wondering, in retrospect what Georgia have won the last two national championships, had it not had a 2425 year old quarterback had it not had veterans. You know, our Georgia safety was a guy who sat behind Richard LaCount for three years and then started for two years. And it's like you basically have an NFL veteran leading your defense you basically have an NFL veteran quarterback you bet and that gives you such an advantage compared to the years where you have a true freshman or sophomore junior at those positions, which is usually the case for a school like Georgia, and with college basketball, you know, I don't know that we're ever gonna see 10/5 year seniors in the Final Four ever again. And so when that changes, does, it's just the balance go back to the kind of top heavy, younger teams that maybe have a couple upperclassmen, but are led by young guys. And I don't know, we'll see. I just think that those teams, even pre COVID kind of struggled like Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett did not make the Final Four, and that year of Virginia team with Kyle Guy, and Jerome, and you know, a bunch of older basketball players won the national championship, they did have one, you know, DeAndre Hunter, won lottery pick player on that team. And maybe that's the formula having a number of veteran guys who've played together, as well as a little bit, you know, sprinkle of that elite talent, younger talent to chip in and give you an athletic advantage. That's personally if I'm, if I'm Duke, if I'm you and see, that's kind of how I'm recruiting, trying to go for a lot of guys that are going to be there. And, you know, one or two a year that are going to be lottery picks, but we'll see the approach those schools take and we'll see what what translates in the Final Four years post COVID.
Mike Lewis 26:05
And I'll speculate that it probably is something where you gotta move down the rankings. And try and keep guys, you know, when you add in the transfers, and try and keep guys for five years, you know, there's four years would be great. Four or five years, you know, it's been that notion, right, that the guys, the teams with the senior guards aren't going to play well into March. And I suspect that becomes that becomes ever more true, right guys that have four years in your program for five years. I mean, again, the idea of red red shirting seems crazy now, right, but five years in the program, and hitting, you know, threes under pressure, probably the probably the long term business plan for these places. Okay, Doug. So moving ahead. You mentioned an older quarterback who I think is older than Well, today we're talking about reviewing the NFL. And I want to say what, Stetson Bennett older than Jalen hertz is older, I guess not was.
Doug Battle 27:01
I don't know about that one because my senior year Georgia Jalen Hertz. I think Stetson was a freshman. And Jalen hertz was a sophomore. So I think he's right. He might be older though. Maybe there's like maybe Jalen Hertz. Maybe Stetson was held back. Maybe it was red shirted kids in my school used. Jalen hertz is 24 years old duck. Okay, so yeah, I was so Stetsons a year older. But I mean, right. Right. Right there. You know, one of the older quarterbacks in the NFC East if he ends up in that division, of course, Dak Prescott is a little bit older than him. I'm not sure where Daniel Jones, Daniel Jones is, but we'll talk about Daniel Jones.
Mike Lewis 27:45
Well, okay, so the, you know, the NFC East last year, Jalen Hertz. And again, I'll sort of give my quick preseason view on these guys. Jalen hertz strikes me as a very average quarterback going into the year has a breakthrough season. I don't I don't know that I'm I haven't run the numbers yet. I don't know that I'm fully convinced that her. I'll be careful here, because everyone gets very upset. I don't know that hurts. I don't know where hertz ranks in terms of NFL quarterbacks. I don't know if he's a top 10 guy. I don't think he's a top five guy. But he may end up being kind of a tough 10 to 15 guy. So he's a very interesting player that had a fantastic year. Number two on the list. Dak Prescott Dak has had some great statistical years last year was not one of them being the position he plays. Doug, I don't know. But you know, Dallas Cowboy quarterback might be the biggest job in all professional sports. American professional sports, there's probably, you know, probably playing striker for man you means even more. But Prescott, you know, will always be under the microscope. Always sort of be you know, questions about him. As long as he plays in Dallas. We had a player you've paid a lot of attention to Daniel Jones have, in some ways from a business perspective, a strange year, where it seemed like they didn't want him, but then sign them to a nice deal afterwards. And then the Washington commanders with a complete wash out of a season in terms of quarterbacks and likely to draft a draft a guy in the first round coming up in this year in this year's NFL
Doug Battle 29:27
draft, or, or make a trade? Oh, yeah. You
Mike Lewis 29:35
mentioned there's a rumor going around just as we're turning the mics on. So what's the rumor?
Doug Battle 29:39
Or this is no rumor or the Lamar Jackson tweeted himself he requested a trade from the Baltimore Ravens. And you know, it's right down the road from Baltimore. That's Washington DC. I know some commanders fans would be pretty excited about that.
Mike Lewis 29:55
Yeah, that's that's a tough one right? Because Washington, the Washington football for antis has, you know, an economic situation that can potentially, you know, afford to put up the money. You know, part of the issue with guaranteed money is the owner has to be wealthy enough to put the money into escrow. Right. And so the Washington commanders, and I don't know, Daniel Snyder's relative position amongst the billionaire's, but just the nature of that brand in the market they're in would seem to have the financial resources to do it. And I also think in again, you know, you can push back I mean, if you want, the commander's might be one of these franchises, that is desperate enough to overpay for a low margin axon. And so we could see that go into I could see that happening. That'd be a good fit.
Doug Battle 30:49
I could too. And Dan Schneider has a history of trading the farm for an athletic quarterback, RG three,
Mike Lewis 30:56
he has a history of some of the worst free agent signings.
Doug Battle 30:59
Well, and that's another thing that makes me think because you've been so you know, looking at, I hope people understand because I've seen some hate, for discussion regarding Lamar Jackson. It's not that Lamar Jackson's not a good football player. It's looking at it from a economical standpoint, and with scarce resources, is this the best way to use them? And historically, I think, on this show, the opinion is that that's not the case. And so with that said, The Washington commanders have slash forward slash football team. Slash Yeah, I'm trying to think of all their names. They have the commies. They have a history of making those moves, where we're you look at the numbers and you look at Do you remember was, was it an Indomie? Kung Fu or there was some haynsworth bring to it was that they paid him crazy money, crazy money to come in past his prime. And he essentially
Mike Lewis 32:03
retired from ACC ervice after he got that money. Setting class as an example, something called the Winner's Curse. Yeah. Where the team that overvalues the player is the one that gets them. Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's and I think if you talk to Washington football fans, that is their frustration with that ownership is that they've always gotten those things wrong and just crippled, crippled the franchise.
Doug Battle 32:29
The thing about fans, though, is that I know the Washington commies fans that I that I'm friends with, will sell themselves on the IDF. It happens just like they did with RG three, just like they did with Albert Haynesworth. And Darren still
Mike Lewis 32:43
relevant they be I mean that and that's the key, right? Suddenly, there's excitement around this franchise. And Doug, is Lamar Jackson or will love us.
Doug Battle 32:58
conversation for another day.
Mike Lewis 33:00
I'm not saying who's going to be the better quarterback even I'm just saying in terms of the media environment and the fan excitement.
Doug Battle 33:07
Well, it's exciting. And as a fan, you sell yourself on that. But when it doesn't work, when it doesn't lead to Super Bowls, you flip the script and you say I knew that was idiotic. I knew that wasn't a good move. And we need to fire the guy who did it. Even though I was super stoked when it happened. I was that guy Mike with the I've talked about this before on the show the Brooklyn Nets they brought in Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce traded the farm, terrible move long term, you could look at it and say these guys are past their prime, they're, you know, this is a second round exit in the playoffs at best. And that's exactly what happened. But at the time, it felt like the nets are irrelevant. They could they could do the talk of the NBA for a hot second. And we got to just buy in here. And in retrospect, it's the worst GM in NBA history. And it's the worst trade I've ever seen. And,
Mike Lewis 33:57
and that's why we that's why we record these things, Doug. So, so I get my analysis of Lamar Jackson can be reduced to some unfortunate things that sound a little bit like trash talking, and I can get called out on this. With the commanders were eight and eight, I think about that, you know, eight and eight, that's one or two games away from the playoffs. And that's got to feel absolutely desperate in that in that building. I mean, when again, with all the controversies and all the struggles and all the investigations. I suspect you're right now if you are the general manager of the Washington commanders, and the price is you're gonna have to give up, you know, at least one first round draft pick, probably a package of draft picks, including one first round pick, and Jackson wants $250 million in guaranteed money. You're also betting your career Now, for the Washington commander's, the owner probably wants you to, you know, may well be in a state where, I mean, the attendance of that place has been terrible. If you look at attendance rates, it's it's truly dropped off. It might be time to make that bet. But if it doesn't, then I think you're as the owner, you almost got to sell the franchise and just move on to your next great mission in life.
Doug Battle 35:24
How many of those situations as Dan Snyder survived, though? People hate that man and DC, by the way, lots of family.
Mike Lewis 35:34
I know. But can we be having a good time with it at this point?
Doug Battle 35:37
Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, when, and Ted lasso, and the woman owner takes over for the male owner, her ex husband and wants to run the program into the ground? I think you could, I think there could be a theory about Dan Snyder. I don't know who previously owned the Washington football team, or who he knows who loves the Washington football team. Maybe he has an ex wife who adores that team and follows them religiously. And he this whole thing has been one giant troll job. Just throwing that out there.
Mike Lewis 36:12
Yeah. You know, I mean, in some ways, it's like the data, the data probably fits that story. probably much more an example of just extreme ego. And you know, and I can run any kind of business, I think get
Doug Battle 36:27
drafting will Levis would be the move that would make people the most mad. Yes. What, Mr. Jackson, there's at least that short term excitement.
Mike Lewis 36:40
And again, if the storyline is that they decide to pass on trading for Lamar Jackson, and then draft will love us. And, and again, the tough thing is, from a football standpoint, that might be the right thing to do. Because you also have to remember and all this, that will lead us would come in making $4 million a year versus 50 million or $60 million a year. And you know that that cost controlled quarterback, that ability to take the rest of the resource, the rest of that money, and invest in free agents on a team that was already ate and ate and will be playing the, you know, the last place schedule. You know what I mean? In some ways, when you start to lay it out, logically, the conservative approach, the non exciting approach might be the right thing to do. So the Washington, Sanders will be signing Lamar Jackson within the
Doug Battle 37:40
will love us, to me not to go on too much of a tangent here. But to me, he's like, ceiling is Ryan Tannehill. Like, I just think he's a bust waiting to happen. That's just my personal opinion. Some of our, some of our social followers have raised some good points recently that because we love debate, good debate, Mike, that, you know, Mike made a comment a couple of weeks ago.
Mike Lewis 38:05
So Doug is claiming that we are the only players out there that has social followers that actually raise good points and just don't
Doug Battle 38:13
claim I didn't claim that no, it's, it's there's just some discussion, Mike on the Fanalytics channels, when Mike made a claim that a lot of these busts are guys who get drafted based on their ability to throw it across their body running left on their pro day or their crazy combine when we were that was in regards to Anthony Richardson we were talking about and several Followers Made a point that I wanted to bring to the podcast on their behalf
Mike Lewis 38:42
and often the in advance. Sure, sure. That is an observation purely based on anecdotal anecdotal observations. Okay. No data whatsoever on that.
Doug Battle 38:53
Okay. Okay, that so the the counter to that anecdotal observation is that a lot of these top quarterbacks in recent years have been guys who maybe weren't, quote unquote, winners in college and who weren't finished products. Who were kind of more project guys. I think Patrick mahomes was viewed that way. I think Josh Allen was viewed as this massive guy who probably threw too many interceptions but had a rocket arm and a lot of athletic ability. And with the right coaching staff who felt like they can mold him and who into who they wanted him to be. You could be a superstar. And so I think that's the argument in favor of drafting a guy like will Levis in favor of drafting a guy like Anthony Richardson? I'm not saying that's what I would do. I'm just simply putting that line of thought out there that you know, when in regards to this Washington football team situation
Mike Lewis 39:45
I would like to Well, I would like to Okay, okay, so in some ways this brings us back to the whole kind of Bill Parcells rules right and right and in some ways, right, the notion to some of ourselves rules as it boils down to things Like, you got to be a winner, you got to be accurate. You've got to have experience. A lot of the busts out there have been a lot of the more historical generational busts have been guys that had essentially one good season. Right. So they didn't have the prolonged excellence. Yeah. And so you're talking about, let's say Orion leaf, or, and I looked up the name Jamarcus. Russell, is to sort of, in frankly, that was always my concern with the 40, Niners and Trey Lance. Yeah. So so they are probably making a good point. It's just sort of two things can be true. We can talk about sort of the media hype from, you know, ESPN covering Sam, Donald's Pro Day at USC, and he's throwing the ball great in the rain, and sort of this lack of prolonged winning or experience at the top of their game in college. So yeah,
Doug Battle 40:54
I think the Parcells rules really favor a guy like I mean, the guy they really favor is Bryce Yan. I think they favor Stetson Bennett. And he's one that I I've never been a huge believer as far as like a starting NFL quarterback. But in Georgia fans will hate me for saying that. But you know, but they don't favor will love us or Anthony Richardson. And it just if I'm Washington I look at will love us or Anthony Richardson. And it's you said a couple of weeks back, like with Richardson, there's like a 10% chance he ends up being a guy that wins you multiple Super Bowls, and there's a 50% chance he gets you fired or whatever. And I think we'll Levis is in that same ballpark or it's like, could he develop and become Josh Allen, is there a chance that that happens is the other physical tools for that to happen? I think so. I don't think it's going to happen. But would you rather spend $4 million for a 10% chance at Josh Allen, or $40 million for a guy who's definitely going to have you kind of right on the fringe of the playoffs, but has an injury history who seems to be on a downward trajectory for the rest of his career in Lamar Jackson. And, but he keeps but there's a higher floor, much higher floor with Lamar Jackson, and his ceilings really high. We've seen him play at MVP level. So I don't want to disregard that. But it does seem like the numbers seem to indicate that running quarterbacks at this point in their careers, you know, their best days are behind them. So that's that's the decision for a team like Washington.
Mike Lewis 42:31
And I think this kind of highlights one of the limitations of analytics. Yeah, and how sometimes Analytics might tell you to do something, but the realities of human relationships, brand management, you know, managing your loyal customer fan base for clewd. You doing? You know, what might might make sense, what might make sense is that you take a first round, pick, you know, you take a quarterback in the early rounds, or the first round, or the early rounds in the NFL Draft, every three years, until you find some guy that's gonna play for 12 years, and truly be at the top of the game.
Doug Battle 43:09
And then you don't draft one for a while.
Mike Lewis 43:11
And then you don't draft one for sort of play the controlled quarterback game and you kind of go, you know, maybe this guy will break through. We but I don't think we've ever really seen it done right. I mean, the last time we had something close to it was the Arizona Cardinals who had what was his name, Rosen. Josh Rosen. They moved him out pretty quickly for Kyler. Murray Murray, yeah, it might have been rational to have both those guys on the roster and keep them for as long as possible. Now, this brings us usually we go from the top of this divisions down to the bottom, we start at the bottom this week. The New York Giants have a guy that, you know, after we have a four years in the league, started to show some signs of breaking through, but maybe breaking through to the point of being a better than average quarterback, rather than a great quarterback. And so for that organization, it's exactly what you're talking about. Do you want to have a guy that's what did he get 90 million guaranteed?
Doug Battle 44:12
I think something in that, something like that. I'll look it up.
Mike Lewis 44:17
I'll look it up in a second. But a decent amount of guaranteed money, not a crazy amount of guaranteed money. The Giants were nine and seven. Are they locking themselves into having a journeyman quarter journeyman type quarterback that has just enough upside that they can talk themselves into? He can be Eli Manning and win us a Super Bowl or two over the next decade?
Doug Battle 44:44
Yeah, I think Daniel Jones very fortunate to be with a franchise that won a quarterback who was perceived very similarly at this point in his career, and won a Super Bowl because the Giants organization doesn't feel like they need to have an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady to win Super Bowls. They feel like they need an Eli Manning. And okay, I think that verdicts still out. But Daniel Jones could be an Eli Manning. Okay, Doug. So
Mike Lewis 45:12
the deal was four years $160 million, with a $92 million signing bonus.
Doug Battle 45:19
I mean, I'll take it. I don't think he's, I don't think he's gonna be worth his time to look at the price tags when he goes shopping. So he said, Daniel Jones is set and the giants are as much as it's not like a Lamar Jackson deal. They're also it's big enough of a deal that they're not going to be able to take a look at any other quarterbacks the next few years. Right? Like they're locked into Daniel Jones. And so
Mike Lewis 45:45
they could I mean, with a cost controlled rookie quarterback. Well, I guess, Jalen hertz second round or something, right. You can play this, you know, you could do some exploration, but I gotta get to the weirdness of are you offending this guy that you just gave $90 million to?
Doug Battle 46:00
Yeah, I think Jalen hertz is a good example of like, the eagles were pretty locked into Carson Wentz at the time when they drafted him. And so he might be that might be the closest example we have to kind of your scenario in recent memory. And over the years, we've had teams draft quarterbacks pretty high that didn't need a quarterback simply because of how valuable the position is the New England Patriots drafted Jimmy Garoppolo the the
Mike Lewis 46:24
person Aaron Rodgers with was joined in love
Doug Battle 46:28
with Jordan love. And even before Aaron Rodgers, they had Brett Farve, and they drafted Aaron Rodgers. And so that's kind of been part of their philosophy this whole time. It's worked really well, of course, with Brett Farve and Aaron Rodgers, seamless transition there. Jordan love, TBD. But we'll see on that one. But But yeah, Daniel Jones, with the Giants. I mean, I've said 100 times that, we've yet to see him with a good offensive line or good receivers. And so he can do, like, I'm impressed by Daniel Jones ability to make to have an average outcome with below average, surrounding talent. And that's kind of been that's kind of what he did this year. That was impressive to people. But that doesn't mean that he has the ability to make with average talent, great outcomes, which is what Joe burrow has done, I think, in my opinion, or with or even with great surrounding talent to have great outcomes like that might be his ceiling. We don't know. So I still he's kind of weird because he's been in the league for four years and it feels like the verdict is still out on Daniel Jones. The encouraging thing for Giants fans, is that Brian De ball we talk a lot about Coach quarterback pairs that coach quarterback pairs seem to bring massive improvement to his game. And I think people expect more improvement, more momentum in that direction with de ball in the continuity with Daniel Jones.
Mike Lewis 47:54
Okay, can I say this to Jones 15 touchdowns last year. Five interceptions. So a nice ratio.
Doug Battle 48:06
Oh, you had some rushing touchdowns, too? Yeah. But
Mike Lewis 48:09
I mean, throwing for 15 touchdowns suggests to me your year. It actually mean you're looking looking at it. He's kind of he's never been a high volume touchdown guy. And I think that's probably the thing that suggests that his ceiling might not be all that high. The other thing is as a New York Giants again, you read you mentioned Ted last Oh, right. It's like you know, there's there's competition between these clubs. There's rivalries between these clubs and that ex husband and or an ex wife and I guess they're both ex husband and ex wife. But you know for the Giants. Are you suddenly you you know, we sometimes I'll talk about how there's usually a second team in from a brand brand equity perspective in any city. If Aaron Rodgers does end up with the New York Jets is Daniel Jones suddenly really unexciting and your glamour out there?
Doug Battle 49:09
I think he's already unexciting to a lot of people. As a Giants guy myself. I'm I'm not mad about it. Like I feel like the verdicts still out long term on Daniel Jones. A lot of people compare him to kirk cousins and I think he's more athletic. He's more athletic or cousins. But I don't think that's a bad thing that you know, to have a guy because he's getting paid like, I think his pay is about relative to where he ranks and quarterbacks. So you're not paying him. Mr. Jackson money. And I think Giants fans, as a whole would have been really excited about Lamar Jackson coming in. But it or Aaron Rodgers for example. But long term, I don't know if that's the best move for the franchise. My concern with Daniel Jones was that he was going to go to a team like San Francisco or a team that had the peace is in play and really lighted up and the Giants were gonna always regret that like when Brett Farve left the Falcons are when we've seen that Drew Brees leaving San Diego, of course, he was already an elite quarterback. But Kirk Cousins leaving Washington going to the Vikings and all sudden being an MVP caliber quarterback. And so I thought that was a possibility for Daniel Jones and out of fear. And so I'm kind of relieved that we're not going to see that happen.
Mike Lewis 50:28
Yeah, and I mean, I'll, from my perspective, my bottom line, and I think that and I don't know what the perception is of the giants. The Giants have done the smart thing, you know, signing him to a moderate contract in terms of both length and dollars. I do suspect that they'll probably invest in you know, some additional quarterback talent, right, because that look, the rookie, the rookies are essentially free in a way, right in terms of, you know, four or $5 million versus 40 or $50 million. So, they seem to have done the smart thing, the non emotional thing. The next guy on our list is Dak Prescott. Now, Prescott has always been an interesting guy, right? Because he came in as a as a mid round draft picks. So Prescott never got the Prescott never got the money. Yeah, right. So he had to go through all sorts of, you know, tribulations to get the Cowboys to pay him. There was an injury. He came back from the injury and probably in statistically had maybe one of the best years of his career. This last year, really fell off quite a bit. And again, sort of let's see what the numbers are. The numbers are in the touchdowns, two interceptions, went from 37 and 10. And 2137 touchdowns to 23 touchdowns and 2022 and interceptions went up from 10 to 15. So Prescott, and again, he's playing in this ultra high pressurized environment. He's we've also seen Ezekiel Elliott really drop off in terms of performance. You know, Dallas is clearly a team that is not interested in having anything except the, you know, the ultimate success. Prescott's, a Top 10 Top 12 guy, I think at this point, and he's not going to get the Cowboys to he's not going to get he's he's not going to get the Cowboys to the land of Roger Staubach, or of Troy Aikman. And so I think what we're going to see the narrative that's going to play through with him over and over again, is, is it time for the Cowboys to move on? I think he's got just two years left in that deal, because I think it was just a four year deal. So very quickly, we're going to come up on another cycle of a contract that he's going to want to get paid. The media is gonna say they gotta pay him. He's the best cowboy quarterback in a long time. And, you know, the number is going to go from 150 million on the last one to 220 million for the next four years. 250 million. So, again, Prescott's, an interesting guy, very high pressurized situation, but probably a guy that's locking Jerry Jones into a place where he doesn't want to be.
Doug Battle 53:08
Yeah, and I think cowboy. I got a sense from Cowboys fans this year that they're a little bit jealous of the Eagles situation, because it seems like Dak Prescott's the more talented prospect than Jalen Hertz. Like, I think a lot of people thought Jalen hertz is going to be a poor man's Dak Prescott. And Jalen hertz has that leadership ability, that kind of sixth sense that it factor that Dak Prescott is never showed in the biggest moments. And so I you know, I think that Cowboys fans, I mean, I remember two years ago when there was all this drama about where they're going to resign and where they're going to trade them. And I think they're back in that situation. Let's
Mike Lewis 53:52
talk about can I let's talk about these guys in parallel then. Because I think, yeah, so hers I
Doug Battle 53:59
mean, that's their, that's their competition, really, I mean, that's their biggest competition, our tails
Mike Lewis 54:02
one more year before he becomes an unrestricted free agent. So you know, and and Philadelphia is paying him about $4 million dollars next million dollars. Now hurts. You know, again, maybe the perception is he's you know, got great leadership and played you know, really some college football this year. I look, I've heard people say that he was the best, better quarterback in the in the Super Bowl. He threw for 22 touchdowns and six interceptions. But that's the first time he's thrown for 20 touchdowns in his career. So he's a he's a guy that is in some ways, a one hit wonder. And just as we might be concerned about one hit wonders at the college ranks, we're probably should be concerned about one hit wonders that the NFL rank as well.
Doug Battle 54:51
Okay. Vince Young comes to mind. I remember thinking he was going to Colin Kaepernick comes tomorrow. And he tore it up. Carson Wentz comes to mind at a I mean, I remember people talking about him being MVP of the league. I mean, on a smaller scale like Taylor Heinicke he had some big games this year, the Cooper rush had some big games and people were starting to get excited. And late in the season, his name escapes me the 40 Niners like fourth string quarterback who went on a little tear there, as well. And so we've seen our share of one hit wonders that didn't sustain the long term success. I think, like a good one hit wonder was Tony Romo. He kind of had that special season. But he really was a solid quarterback for a long time. And I think he still would be if you were playing football. So, you know, that's I don't know. That's definitely I think the verdicts out long term on Jalen hertz, I think we've got to see him sustain that success. And I think Philly probably wants to see that in order to invest in him. In the same way, you know, he's probably going to demand Lamar Jackson money like after leading them to the Superbowl after the year that he had this year. So we'll see what happens with Jalen hertz and Phillip maybe Philly decides to lock him in this offseason try to sign him long term. That'd be a bit of a gamble on their end, but to wait is a bit of a gamble as well, as we've seen.
Mike Lewis 56:16
And I want to that is a good question. I don't know anything about it. There are rumors of an extension for Jalen Hertz. But he, you know, he was the bigger if we want to think about sort of quarterbacks as stocks. He was probably the biggest mover last year. You know, yeah. We might argue that, like Trevor Lawrence made the biggest leap forward. But I think almost everyone thought it was coming. Yeah, Jalen Hertz. Leap was at the same level of, of Laurens, but it was also, but it was also ended up taking the eagles to the Super Bowl. Right. And you think about how big of a disaster the A, the NFC East was perceived to be just a year or two in the past. And suddenly, you know, the Eagles are, you know, the top one or two teams in the league, they've got a quarterback that seems they can play with everyone. It's probably tempting as the management of the eagles to say, we got our guy, let's lock him in. But, you know, I think you got to see it. And again, I can see social media crucifying me for this one as well. I think you got to see more, right? You can't just you can't put all those dollars and look, to some extent, hertz might want to wait on the contract as well. Because what kind of deal do you give them a Daniel Jones like deal? Or a b&o a Lamar Jackson, Jackson or wealth. See when he gets so it's
Doug Battle 57:43
what he's demanding what he's demanding. I think Jalen Hertz. If he has another year, like this last year, I think he can demand that Lamar Jackson deal. And I think that teams are willing to do it. I think so to him as they view him as a Super Bowl quarterback.
Mike Lewis 57:57
Right. And so it's just a matter of so if you're the Eagles, you got this dilemma of, you know, maybe we're willing to invest 90 million and guaranteed dollars to you. But you probably want 150 minimum, and maybe you're writing 200. Right. And like this could be one of the legacies of Lamar Jackson, is he now in a position where he's going to roll the dice, because he doesn't want 140 million or $150 million. He wants the 200 or the $250 million. And he's relatively close to, to getting to that point. It would be you know, this, this could be Lamar Jackson's biggest impact on the gaillac. We've already talked about the AFC north. But I suspect that Lamar Jackson, everyone is watching every step of the way here, in terms of what he's going to get the way teams are reluctant to negotiate him with the franchise tag and not wanting to give up two picks. This issue of you know, him trying to reset the quarterback market. And all the NFL teams wanting to reset the quarterback market from just Sean just on Watson downward. He wants to sell. Right,
Doug Battle 59:06
right. Yeah. And I also think the fact his name is just going to come up when we're talking about different divisions because he has the potential to totally change the landscape of any division that he ends up in. So in this case, like it perceptions kind of Philly, Dallas, New York, Washington. But if Washington lands Lamar Jackson and eight Nate team, it's you know, last year, the analytics really aren't that diff that much different than Cleveland when they added Deshaun Watson where the perception was, okay, now they've got a, you know, they've been winning eight games with mediocre talent. Now they have a potential MVP caliber quarterback. And this could take them to the next level. I think Washington is a team to keep an eye on where it's like they could be favorited in the NFC next year.
Mike Lewis 59:50
Doug, I want to you know, let me ask you pick this division, from first to fourth.
Doug Battle 59:54
I mean, I gotta go Philly. Yeah, right now I got Philly first Washington. And last, you know, I'll say, I'll go with I'll go with the G men over Dallas. I'll go with the Giants second division. And if Lamar
Mike Lewis 1:00:09
ends up playing for the Washington commanders, where do they?
Doug Battle 1:00:13
Where do they go to division? It's a loaded division at that point. And
Mike Lewis 1:00:18
I could have still won or you pick them to then?
Doug Battle 1:00:22
No, I kind of could see I could see a Cleveland situation like last year where they get all the hype and going into the season, people are talking about them as favorites. Okay, and they ended up third in Dallas is for the third or the Giants or fourth, but yeah, I still see them. I don't see them passing Philly, for sure. With what Philly has going. Right now Philly is a well oiled machine that I expect to see competing for Super Bowls for years to come.
Mike Lewis 1:00:49
Okay, Doug, we're over time. So let's do this real quick. We are currently watching two shows, the Mandalorian and Ted lasso. I am watching them both eagerly. I think the Mandalorian has figured some stuff out, they seem a little bit more geared towards at least starting each episode with some classic Star Wars action. Some of the plot points are probably not where they should be in terms of having something where it's compelling from week to week, had last. So I'm also going to say like they returned to the field some focus on the players, which, which I think was helpful. Both of those on a 10 point scale for me are still hovering around that six and a half kind of level of I'm going to keep watching. But I'm not. I'm not loving them the way I said this. I'm not loving them the way I want to love them.
Doug Battle 1:01:42
Yeah, I'll just say that. Ted, last year, I thought I had a nice bounce back episode. And it has it has me back in I'm back. Like I'm locked in every Wednesday, waiting to see what happens with this franchise. The Mandalorian has had moments. I think it's those flashback scenes are those cuts, of course, aren't were that feel like Star Wars that feels special. But as a whole, I don't know that anyone really knows what the overarching, like what the story arc is for the season is kind of all over the place. And I don't know what the objective is or what the real conflict is, and what the characters are setting out to achieve. And so I think that's a criticism I've seen across the board. We'll see if they tie it all together. And it was a lot of people skeptical about that. And it was a lot of people optimistic about that. But those are two very passionate fandoms that are very opinionated about those two projects. And you know, I like I said I'm feeling a little more optimistic about Ted last. So now after last week's episode Mandalorian I enjoyed seeing the plot twist of the year, which was the Jar Jar Binks actor playing the role of the Jedi that saved plus spoiler alert. Turn it off. If you haven't seen it yet. Let's save grow goo from the Jedi Temple during Order 66 That was that was very surprising
Mike Lewis 1:02:59
as to aggression. Spoiler. Okay.
Doug Battle 1:03:02
I told I gave him an alert. Like the Jar Jar Binks guide playing a Jedi it would have been better though if it had been Jar Jar himself.
Mike Lewis 1:03:12
In the world of streaming, you know, the spile spoilers are out. You know, it's all over the internet spoilers.
Doug Battle 1:03:18
It's all over and it's been a week like you've had a week. Come on now. I think succession is the big show right now though. Succession is probably the next one we got to keep up with because it's getting a lot of buzz has at the moment. 100% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Mike Lewis 1:03:30
Doug. The other thing is there's got to be a return to the theater for me for something other than Fast and the Furious and that's John Wick four. Okay, so we'll we'll wrap it there as always more content at www Fana mantle