The NBA Trade Deadline stole some of the NFL's shine during the lead up to Super Bowl LVII. Professor Lewis took to the podcast this week to discuss both events - breaking down Rihanna's halftime performance, the best 2023 Super Bowl ads, and a potential end to the NBA superteam era.
Watch/listen to the full conversation here:
Also streaming on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, & Stitcher.
Mike Lewis 0:00
Hello and welcome, everyone. Welcome to the Fanalytics Podcast, Mike Lewis and Doug Battle. Doug, we are coming up off of the, in the last spectacle, the Superbowl. 57. And, you know, I think the media story is, in some ways, it's too easy, right? It's all Patrick mahomes. Jalen hertz is getting a little bit of publicity and all this in terms of like, he's the real deal the next. He's the next guy that's gonna get paid, I think or he's on the list. Yeah, but Patrick mahomes. Now two Super Bowls in six years, two Super Bowls. And when two Super Bowl wins in the last four years, he is the new face of the league, at least for the moment, at least till Joe burrow or Josh Allen knocks them off that perch. What do you think?
Doug Battle 0:57
Yeah, it feels like no one wants him to be the face of the league. I know Kansas City Chiefs fans do but I think everyone would have rather seen Josh Allen or Joe burrow, or even Jalen hertz, do it this year. So for whatever reason, my theory is that it's because people don't like listening to him talk. And last night, during the game, I was with a guy and you know, it's Super Bowl parties, you got people who don't watch football, they're pretty much all of them. So one of the guys was explaining to everyone else that. Yeah, when this guy talks, he's really good at football when he talks to sounds like Kermit the Frog. And so I don't know. It's like, he's like the brain, the new Brady, but nobody really wants him to be. But I mean, the accomplishments speak for themselves and Kansas City what any reads done. You know, it's interesting to me, they never really talked last night about the fact that Andy Reid was
Mike Lewis 1:47
there, because I think you make, like, an interesting point in terms of Patrick mahomes. Because it is a weird, it is a weird part of this story that he's not. They might say he's not good on the mic. Right? I mean, his his advert is work with State Farm is kind of, I mean, I love when Aaron Rodgers is doing those State Farm ads. When I see Patrick mahomes, it's kind of I kind of tune out. And I'll tell you, the other thing is you're going through that my daughter and her friends know his brother far more than they know him. They think of him as the brother of the Tick Tock guy. So doesn't seem to have the intellect. I mean, like you don't get everything in life, right. And so maybe he doesn't have great quarterback, but maybe he doesn't have that kind of commercial appeal. Or maybe he'll grow into it.
Doug Battle 2:38
Yeah. And, you know, I think you bring up tick tock raises another point. And it's that there is this disconnect, I think, with sports fans, between sports fans feel a level of connection with the athletes, until it gets to Gen Z, and then it feels like so foreign. These guys hit in the gritty every touchdown that they do. I was talking about that last night, watch the news, I am so sick of seeing every guy that scores touchdown do the same tick tock dance, and the endzone. And so you got guys out there that were born in, you know, the year 2002, or something playing in the Super Bowl. And I do think there's this generational disconnect where I don't know that marketers know what to do with guys like that. And then I think there's this negative association, just like there was with millennials. But
Mike Lewis 3:25
the marketers clearly have no idea what to do at all, at this point with a supermodel. I think that's what last night proved that the marketers have no idea. They got some formulas, but they have no idea how to connect with people at the moment.
Doug Battle 3:39
Yeah. And I will say there were a couple of ads that I liked. You know, I didn't realize that I liked these until after the Superbowl. It's one of the interesting things about the Super Bowl. There's a lot of eyeballs. Nobody can really hear what's going on. If you're watching at a Super Bowl party, it's really hard. It's really difficult to understand what's going on in the ads. So if you don't follow up and watch them on YouTube, you miss a lot of the action. I thought that breaking good pop corners ad I don't know if you saw that one bike, but it was spin on Breaking Bad. Yeah, they they treat the snack like it's a drug. And, you know, that one I thought was pretty well received. Will Ferrell had his his moment and the GMs Netflix crossover ad Blue Moons Miller's course drew you and you are wondering who's who's this ad for? How are they in the same commercial that ends up being blue man with a spin. And people were critical of Blue Moon saying, you know, they just spent 29 of the 30 seconds advertising to other brands, guess what? They're all three owned by the same company. And so that was I thought that was kind of smart. And then Ram had its premature electrification ad. Obviously, double entendre playing on words whatever in regards to EVs. That was pretty well written According to my Twitter feed, so there were some ads there was nothing that I felt like was an all time great Super Bowl
Mike Lewis 5:05
will sort of push you on this. Is there anything? Was there any kind of something unifying about the why did you like those ads you think compared to some of the other ones?
Doug Battle 5:13
I'm I'm a sucker for humor during the Superbowl the feelgood ones never get me like that's for a different audience, I think. But yeah, if it gets a laugh out of me a genuine laugh, then that's a win.
Mike Lewis 5:24
Okay, so it was essentially the comedy worked. And those ads in
Doug Battle 5:28
the comic do not work in a lot of ads. And it's always amazing to me how much money is spent? And how many minds go into making some ads that just do not. And it's like, did they pass these on anyone? Because some most of them you just watch and you're like, this is this is a waste of money. Nobody's gonna laugh. Nobody's gonna have an affinity for your brand after this. Like the mark.
Mike Lewis 5:48
Do you know the it's like, designed by a focus group? It's like designed by committee. I think where I'm like,
Doug Battle 5:54
Who who was their group? Who were they like, who is the focus group that they're that's approving this? That's saying this is phenomenal? Because I think so many of them miss so mean?
Mike Lewis 6:04
Yeah. And I think it's sort of, you can all sort of talk people into liking some of this stuff, right? Where it's like, yeah, like that comedian. And yeah, that's kind of cute. That's kind of okay. But, look, I think there's some huge Okay, so here's my take at the moment and why I sort of said that. I don't think the marketers know what to do. My whole takeaway from watching the Superbowl was, it's like too much. It's like, can you turn the volume down? It's like a movie. That's a 90 minute fight scene at this point. It's right. There's, there's no, there's no off. It's like, I'm looking forward to the, to the game. So you're seeing a moment fast
Doug Battle 6:42
and Fast and Furious. 10.
Mike Lewis 6:47
Okay, and so that was one of them. That was one of the ads. And they're bringing in Aquaman as the villain for the final installment, I think Jays Jason Momoa.
Doug Battle 6:57
I don't know. But I see what you're saying. Yeah, it's
Mike Lewis 7:00
like, it's, it's in some ways it ends up it ends up feeling like too much like, the one that stuck with me. Okay, and, and I think there's a larger point here. And you know, you said, you made the point that maybe you know, Gen Z, you know, you're too old for Gen Z. Yeah, man, I'm Gen X. And part of me goes, am I just this grumpy old man yelling Get off my yard to the next couple of generations. But I think the marketers have, you know, okay, let's, let's use an old term, an old piece of terminology have jumped the shark. And I think I explained that to you, like a happy days or efforts back in the 1970s. Enough with the celebrities? Yeah. That's the killer. And I'll tell you the one that really kind of why am I listened to Melissa McCarthy, sing about going on vacation? You know what I mean? It's like some of the stuff. I want to laugh too. But some of it's just like, too much.
Doug Battle 7:53
Yeah. Hey, the celebrity. I think it's overused. I think it's overdone. That formula of first off every commercial was one celebrity. And that's one thing like I thought Will Ferrell worked. You know, I thought the Breaking Bad dude was good. But it
Mike Lewis 8:09
Will Ferrell the question about that? Yeah, yeah, sure. You didn't feel like there was a little bit of lecturing to that.
Doug Battle 8:15
Like, like, you need to drive an electric vehicle. Yeah. I mean, that's like part of the whole easy thing. I don't know. I feel like it was less luxury with Will Ferrell than it would have been with Meghan Rapinoe or, you know, like, somebody that has those kind of political affiliations associated with their brand because Will Ferrell is like, Oh, everybody loves this guy. It's like if you had Eli Manning, or Peyton Manning doing it, which by the way, how were they not in any of the ads after the conversation we've had
Mike Lewis 8:46
paid and was in. I mean, this is the tough thing. It's like the Superbowl now, when we're doing this kind of show the superville feels like there's a little bit of pressure, like you're not going to get up and walk away, paid and was in a bushes, beans, beautiful beans footed Jad where
Doug Battle 8:59
they're like only 100 celebrities in it. No, it's just him. Oh, I'm totally miss that. Totally miss that. Well,
Mike Lewis 9:08
I thought that one was kind of effective. I mean, it's kind of a we all know the beautiful bean footage and the talking dog for bush beans. Yeah, painting, just scream you know. Sometimes I wonder like some of these celebrities are they in fact likeable to a broad base of the population. I think you and I both you and I both find paid and likable I suspect just about everyone finds paid and likeable and sees especially as he's more from being this killer quarterback to you know, almost like the premier dad joke teller in America.
Doug Battle 9:39
Yeah, and I feel like on the flip side, Melissa McCarthy apparently there is a factor of people a faction rather of people who are that thinks she's hilarious and everything she says and does and doesn't even have to be a joke. It's just funny because it's her. I've just never been one of those people. And so it doesn't translate Like to me same as like John Travolta and his ad. He's done some things that I think are funny over the years. But that one, it's like, I know, it struck a chord with someone, but it doesn't translate to certain audiences. And so anyway, all in all, I think the multiple celebrities like with 15, celebrity cameos in one ad that like, that never works for me. And I've never seen that and been, and had any memorable recollection, it's like, just write a good script and be funny, or be memorable like the dog commercials of which there were many, at least, try to strike a chord in you and focus on a story and an emotion and bringing some kind of connection to the audience. Whereas these add, like, oh, there's Tony Hawk, and oh, there's Serena Williams. And there's this other person and there's forget,
Mike Lewis 10:54
why is Oregon watching a golf tournament? Right. So I mean, you mentioned one last week that we didn't, we didn't bring up in that was the Volkswagen, the force ad where the great starts the car or does something with a car with the force, when the parent is playing with the with the key fob. There's no celebrities in that. I guess there is a celebrity in terms of mini Darth Vader. But you know, that thing pops so much more than I agree with you, when you start to have like three, four celebrities in that. You can really get the sense you're bringing the celebrities together and then writing the ad around them. And it's just screaming, look who we got.
Doug Battle 11:34
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a perfect way to summarize it. And to your point, about the Darth Vader Volkswagen ad, I think some of the most memorable ads, when you're talking about all time, great Superbowl ads, don't have any celebrity, and it's simply a good concept that is well executed. I think I sent Mike I sent you yesterday that Doritos ad with the little boy whose mother is about to go on a date, the gentleman visits, she allows the boy and the date to hang out together while she gets ready. And the boy looks at the date and says to rules don't touch my Mama, don't touch my Doritos. And like that one to me. I remember just dying laughing when that originally came out. And that one stuck with me. No celebrities, you know, they didn't get Kanye West for that they didn't get Jay Z or who? Tony Romo whoever, like it's just a little boy. And it's a good concept. And it's well executed just like the Volkswagen, just like the Apple ad with 1984. It's a concept. It's not built around. Whoever was famous, you know, they don't have Michael Jackson in the ad. You know, that's not what made it an all time great.
Mike Lewis 12:45
You know, it is almost, you know, if the point of advertising is to cut through the clutter. It's almost like now the technique they've used to cut through the clutter of, hey, we have these mega stars has actually become the clutter. Yeah. And when you see something clever that doesn't feature Ben Aflac. Or Amy Schumer it? You know, I think they've kind of driven themselves into a dead end at this point with this this formulaic celebrities doing something upfront. Yeah.
Doug Battle 13:15
Yeah. And I think last year, last year was the crypto bowl right? There are all these crypto ads, of course, not this year. But last year, one of the memorable ads to me was just the QR code by Coinbase. That was bouncing across the screen over and over again. And it went on for so long. And eventually you just were like, I got to see what's on that code. And it was going to expire. And so everyone's getting out their phones to scan the code. But then this year, in the first 15 minutes, the Superbowl I think I saw three or four QR code ads. And so it's like once something works once like apparently at some point having a bunch of celebrities work. But then somebody uses that as a formula. And it no longer works when everybody's doing that. That was my observation with QR code. I thought it was brilliant last year, this year, not so much. And the same goes for those celebrity full of celebrity driven ads.
Mike Lewis 14:06
Or at least the just out of curiosity, what do you think of the Ben Stiller, Steve Martin Pepsi ads?
Doug Battle 14:14
I mean, I liked seeing the zoo lambda reference for Ben Stiller. And I think everyone in the room I was in appreciated that the concept of it didn't necessarily stick with me. As far as our reacting are we so yeah, they're obviously acting you know, these guys probably don't drink Pepsi. So I don't it didn't stick with me particularly but I don't know how it graded out, you know, and Ad Week or whoever's rating and reviewing all these ads like they do every year.
Mike Lewis 14:43
Everyone is rating and reviewing.
Doug Battle 14:47
That's CNN and Fox probably have their own. You know, that reminds me one other you talked about how you just got to do something different to kind of cut through and what one ad that got my attention not necessarily effective as far as its message or what it was advertising. But those Jesus ads though he gets us simply the fact that it went from, like, add, like lots of visual stimulation, and then those were just showing really slow, like, still images, for in the whole room kind of got quiet and was like, Oh, what's this? Like everyone kind of focused in. So there was that silence in that. It's like they made noise by being quiet in a way because the rest of it was so loud. And so I thought was an interesting approach as well.
Mike Lewis 15:38
Did you see what happened afterwards on Twitter that AOC went after that as well, they've
Doug Battle 15:42
been they've been thoroughly investigated by the entire internet, and it's a hate group or
Mike Lewis 15:49
whatever. That's the whole this is the whole point in terms of, you know, you spend this amount of money to try and get this buzz and get the, you know, get the follow up free kind of organic publicity. Right, those Jesus ads, and I think, I think it's they're funded by the folks that do Hobby Lobby? I
Doug Battle 16:10
don't I don't know, I think that they have some investors that were involved with some other, like some conservative movements.
Mike Lewis 16:18
They might, they might be the winner of the Super Bowl in this time in terms of invalid uses, said, so I was watching it by myself. So you have a better environment to see how it impacts a crowd. Sure. So it impacted the crowd, and also sort of hit started a social media storm. Perhaps that's the winner for 2023. Yeah, it
Doug Battle 16:38
also could be the big loser, because now it's like, are the people trying to cancel that? I guess, organization, I'm not sure exactly what it is. I don't know how much website traffic they drove. I did hear I have heard discussion amongst some circles that I'm in regarding the effectiveness of it, and what oh, they actually have this website and has all these resources. And none of its political. And, you know, there's definitely created a unintentionally created in ironically, because it was centered around controversy and kind of the hate and rage in our world right now. But controversy, of course, came from that, and people, you know, calling it hypocritical, and people defending it as well. And then I think people questioning whether it was money well spent. And so all that to say it created by to some degree,
Mike Lewis 17:27
100 and 50th consecutive weeks since you've been doing the podcast with the politics and truths on sports, right?
Doug Battle 17:34
It will not stop. It will not stop. You know,
Mike Lewis 17:40
it's an interesting thing. Like I don't think, you know, right? You know, it's such an such an overused phrase, but this is clearly part of the culture war, you know, and it's being the Superbowl is the biggest cultural moment. Yeah. And so you see, social justice messaging, and some of these ads are the Billie Jean King appears as a cameo in the NFLs. Girls flag football push. Yeah, that actually includes the tagline that, you know, the, we're gonna see how you girls change the game of football, I mean, that that's, that's messaging, right. That's social cause mass messaging, you've got the invite the electrical vehicle, kind of the electric vehicle push. So I mean, there is that kind of stuff. And so it's interesting, right, this? And again, I probably should not talk as much about this as I'm going to because I don't I've never I haven't investigated the website associated with the Jesus gets us ads. I mean, they're also fascinating in that they're doing this ad. And as a casual viewer, who's not going to look into the website that maybe they list at the bottom of the screen, you have no idea why they're doing this,
Doug Battle 18:50
you know, which is their objective? It's like, are they? Is it uh, are they getting fundraising for something? Or is it? Is it just an hour? Is this a missionary effort? I think there's a lot of, but I think that causes intrigue that causes people to look at the website. That's, I mean, it's ironically, very, very different types of brands or companies, but it's not that different from GoDaddy, when you didn't know what they were or what their objective was. And I think that caused some intrigue and some Google searches and some social media followers or whatnot, which might be the metrics that are being measured for success or failure for these companies or brands or nonprofits in this case, I would assume, but I don't know. And so because like, like you I haven't necessarily done my research on the people putting up the ad. But nevertheless, if you get a key political figure outraged with your social or with your ad, you're going to get that that exponential growth after it a yours is Frank viewership.
Mike Lewis 20:01
And frankly that I mean, you know, if it turned out AOC was on their payroll, because that is the key. That might be the ideal politician to attack your ad coming from that side of the pit from
Doug Battle 20:14
that. You just earned half the country's allegiance no matter what you stand for what you're about just simply because the it's like if Trump came out and was against the m&ms.
Mike Lewis 20:28
Trump did come out with some and maybe there's a good point of transition, Trump did come out with a review of the halftime entertainment did he?
Doug Battle 20:38
Wait, oh, what? What network? Is this on truth social, or?
Mike Lewis 20:42
I don't know. I saw it like, you know, one of those kinds of Twitter. somewhere else? I don't think ACC on Twitter. So probably is true social. So that's not your you're living in a My sense is the reaction to the halftime show was mixed. You clearly live with a younger demographic, and some folks more interested in popular music. What's the what's the takeaway on the halftime show? So
Doug Battle 21:09
my personal takeaway, and the takeaway of my generation were two different things. So what I'll start with mine, not because it's more important, but just to kind of give some context to how I'm, I'm digesting this. I was watching it. And I'm thinking like, Man, I kind of hate this for Rihanna, because I grew up in the generation where she had a hit song almost every week, like she has so many hit songs. And it speaks to how many hits there are that she didn't play a third of them in her halftime show, because there's not enough time to play all the hit songs she's in. And so so there's that. And I just felt like, man, you as an artist, you get one halftime show for the Super Bowl like and that's kind of like your legacy moment, in a lot of people's eyes. And Beyonce crushed hers, you know, she's in kind of in that same genre, Lady Gaga. And so for Rihanna to do it, while she's pregnant, to me felt like, Man, I wish I wish she had gotten to do it, when she's able to do her full show her full performance, because dancing is a huge part of that genre, and how people evaluate talent. And, and so I felt like she was kind of handicapped in that way. And that was my take on it. Because I think we all know, there's a certain level of the vocals that they have to pre record, simply, if no, no other reason, because of the acoustics in a stadium that large, very hard to do live vocal performances. And so when someone is mostly standing there singing, to me, it's not as exciting. It's not as entertaining. And so that was kind of my I was like, wow, she did the best, it's pretty amazing that she's out there performing pregnant, and it'll be pretty incredible for that child and 20 years to watch that video and be like, Wow, that was that was me. Like, I was almost a person. It was almost like, you know, out in the world. So, you know, I thought that was cool. And, and all that. But I was like, I wish for Rihanna sake. Like, if I were her manager, if I'm a Rihanna fan, I would be like, Man, you know, this isn't fair to her because she's doing it in a year when she's pregnant. Whereas if it were last year or two years ago, or whatever, you know, if it were next year, it might be a totally different level of performance. And so that's, that's how I perceived it. And when I talk to people, everyone I've talked to is like, holy cow, Rihanna crushed it. That might have been the best halftime show ever. Yeah, a lot of young ladies felt empowered by the fact that she's performing while pregnant. And like, wow, that, you know, that almost took it to another level than if she had been dancing and doing all the regular stuff, while not pregnant. So it's almost like I think there was a different and how genders perceive it in my age group, but everyone was just like, telling me like, Dude, that was amazing that she even was out there, much less that you know, she didn't miss it note, and she did do some dancing. And the stages were gorgeous. The set was beautiful. The set design, the wardrobe was interesting. Those dancing dudes, we're never
Mike Lewis 24:13
really put you on this a little bit. Yeah. How about this Super Bowl? And again, what's the purpose of the Super Bowl? halftime? It seems to be to connect it to a younger demographic, you know, maybe to this next generation of fans and I just looked it up. I think Rihanna is 34 years old. Okay, so she's more of a millennial artists than a Gen Z artists, perhaps. My sense is that once you got to, let's say, my my demographic group, and maybe that's old millennials and Gen X, that it was very much mixed. In terms of mix. If this is, you know, is this really trying to play to a mass maybe isn't trying to play too. mass audience. But if it's not trying to play to a mass audience, that's kind of a fascinating decision to make. There was some, some comments that there was some lewd behavior in there. And there was also sort of a general feeling of what the hell are these fuzzy white people dancing? And number three, and I'll tell you this thing that I came away from looking at this, the production values were amazing. Yes, no. I mean, it struck me as almost a dangerous thing being up and down on those platforms. And no, I was thinking like that, too. And this, that the fireworks where they seem to have almost the entire top of that stadium on fire. was spectacular.
Doug Battle 25:43
production quality through the roof, literally. Rihanna, I could not stop thinking about Holy cow, she is hanging up so high, like I hope there's some kind of harness on her and those dancers who were pelvic thrusting on there.
Mike Lewis 25:57
Because she's that high on a clear piece of stage. Right?
Doug Battle 26:01
Yeah. Like, I mean, anyone with stage fright is not going to want to do that. So much less a pregnant lady. That's taken, you know, a significant risk, apparently, of course, like, I'm sure there's safety measures being that we don't see that were taken.
Mike Lewis 26:18
I was spending half of that show trying to look there was at the very beginning, I thought there was like some sort of like, you know, wire or bar behind her that maybe she was connected to, but I spent half the time, like looking at is there anything going on is that and also trying to figure out if this if those pieces of blue site were like wobbling a little bit, and I think
Doug Battle 26:35
they were, I think that if they really wanted to make a splash as far as capturing an audience and really getting people's attention, they would have faked, some kind of fall like they have a song or a diversity while she's performing. She's like, kind of on the edge. And she's wearing high heels and everyone's like, Oh, my gosh, and then have her fall. And she's on a harness, and it actually catches her before she hits the ground like bungee jumping. That, you know, I don't know, that would have been fun. That would have been interesting. That would have that would have been the biggest moment since Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson at the halftime show. And so, but now, the the set was amazing. And, you know, even the camerawork, they had that one shot where the camera came in on Rihanna. And there's, there's a meme of her, like, kind of looking up at it. And then it zooms out. And you see her hanging up there. Like, she looks like she's in Super Smash Bros. There's that one level, where you're in a stadium and you're on these platforms, and every that's become a meme as well. But yeah, having cameras move that close and having the stage hanging from the ceiling and people up that high. I think that the set design and the choreography and all that when is my you know, it was as much a part of the performance as was Rihanna in her songs.
Mike Lewis 27:48
Well, in so back to this question, do you think this stuff should be tailored for the mass audience? Or is it okay is like an end? And like, you can almost imagine the marketing logic of, you know, what, we got the 50 year olds, we got the 60 year olds, the halftime show is entirely about getting people under the age of 20. To tune into this, you know, to this long football game and this Advertising Festival. Yeah. And so, you know, yeah, halftime is not for halftime is not for grandma and grandpa.
Doug Battle 28:19
Yeah, I think that's what they have to do. You know, when it was the who and some of those classic rock groups. They lost that younger audience, I think. And I saw a tweet yesterday before the game that was going viral. And it was someone said,
Mike Lewis 28:35
How about next year, we have Harry Styles doing Dolly Parton? Right? I mean,
Doug Battle 28:41
I don't see I don't like those crossovers. Like when they do that, and advertising and stuff. I kind of like when it's just pure. It is what it is. I don't want to see the weekend and Elton John performing together.
Mike Lewis 28:55
So that's just me. It's almost, you know, alphabet in the fun of putting that together in a marketing meeting with a whiteboard, right.
Doug Battle 29:04
But yeah, I think that because, like, I mean, you know, you know, better than anyone that football and sports as a whole, they tend to resonate more with your demographic than with Gen Z, for example. Although I think that Rihanna was more of a millennial artists, like I think that people my age, and older, a little bit older, were the ones that like know, all the songs and that were really hyped up for it. And I think the Gen Z kids are like, she's kind of this legend to them, but they didn't grow up with her like we did in the same way. And so I don't know that it was geared toward Gen Z as if they had gotten like Olivia Rodrigo, or someone like that to perform. And so but one thing I did notice, Mike, you mentioned that you like lewd behavior or something along those lines. When I spoke with someone my age, a young lady about it, her well that's that's something And
Mike Lewis 30:01
I just love it. The the caveats to the story
Doug Battle 30:04
go Yeah, well, it's important to know, you know how different different demographics reaction, of course, like, not everyone is the same. But it's interesting to see, you know, we've got these kind of empirical evidences of how people perceive these things. And so this young lady said, you know, the thing I liked most about it was that Rihanna was fully covered. And she didn't have to be all sexy and didn't have to be half naked, in order to draw attention or to be great, because she's just a great artist. And she's just a great singer. And that's all she has to do. That was how she perceived the performance. Now, when I spoke to one of my parents about the performance, all they saw the entire time was, oh, my gosh, this is so hyper sexualized, there's so much pelvic thrusting, there's so much you know, this, this should not be on television, this is not appropriate, there are children watching. And so it is very interesting how it could be perceived as modest by one demographic, and offensive by, you know, by someone their parents age. And so that was an interesting and that I'm sorry, that wasn't one of my parents, I was telling my parents ages I was speaking to, but But nevertheless, it's, you know, it is interesting how differently these generations precede the halftime show. And over the last couple years, it seemed to me that my age demographic like last year, people were saying all time greatest, you know, this is the best thing ever. And I think older people are like, Why is the guy hanging upside down? Why are they singing all these, you know, vulgar rap songs, and, and all this stuff. And so it really is geared toward my age. And I think that's very strategic. And I don't think it's a bad strategy given that, that's what draws in my age, I was gonna say before, there was a tweet that I saw someone put out that said, there will be boys playing games before and after the Rihanna concert, that's going to be on TV. And that was kind of the perception amongst, amongst my generation, I think for the everyone I talked to, in like at the Superbowl party I was at, they were locked in for Rihanna, same as last year locked in for Dr. Dre and all that. They knew all the songs, they didn't know a single player on the field. Maybe when I heard someone say, I heard that one of the players is injured, and that might affect the game. And I was like, Are they talking about McCole? hardening? Like, oh, Patrick mahomes. But they didn't know Patrick mahomes name. And so that goes to show like how important that halftime show is for drawing in that part. And what makes it you know, the halftime show might not be serving the full audience. But the Super Bowl as a whole has something for everybody.
Mike Lewis 32:39
Well, and I'll just say this, and then we can move on from cultural aspects that strikes me as a rational, but perhaps a dangerous strategy at the end of the day, right? Where, you know, everyone loves the word authenticity, right. But almost, almost inevitably, as soon as someone says, We're all about authenticity, or transparency be another good one, right? As soon as you hear someone say, We're all about authenticity, it means they're not. And so you do wonder if the NFL starts to back themselves into a corner of trying to have something for everyone, and this piece is for this group, and this piece is for that group. And, you know, how was this built? Right? How was this business built? And this is like a fundamental business concept, right? It was built on, you know, frankly, the kind of stuff that they used to play on, on sort of second tier TV networks, right, the NFL films, kind of great moments, these battles in the frozen tundra. And that's what it was built on. Right. And it wasn't, the NFL was not built by having the latest and greatest, you know, singer sensation or having the, you know, basically being a platform for advertisers. It was a core product. And you know, it's very, it's always going to be luck. And it's not just the NFL, it's just about every institution. It's like the natural tendency is you just keep trying to do more and bring in more audiences. And you lose, you lose focus on that core product. And and so, you know, the danger is not that, oh, suddenly the NFL falls off. I'll be interested to see where the TV ratings come in from this. Yeah. But it is a general, is there a general weakening of the brand? So when you talk about your generation, kind of what I'm hearing is, the NFL is trying to play some games to keep it alive with the youth. Right? Yeah. And that's a dangerous strategy. It can be it's, it's a rational thing from a year to year. But if you're talking about 100 year plan, but you want to have a sport that people play that people love that people know and are willing to sit in the cold to watch right and I am and I won't go beyond that so well beyond culture. Well gone.
Doug Battle 34:50
Yeah, I was gonna say if you look at what they're doing for the even younger generations, they have these Nickelodeon presentations of the game where there's AI or some kind of Virtual reality element and there's slime being thrown in graphics and Patrick Starr from sponge Bob's give me a fragmentary,
Mike Lewis 35:08
yeah, this was a phrase I'm hearing meet the fans where they are. Yeah, well, I ended up playing a full strategy. It's everyone's strategy. And I still know that it's the right strategy
Doug Battle 35:18
and even even like, there's always been the traditional broadcast, right used to be John Matt. And now it's Joe Buck, or, you know, Troy Aikman in the booth. But now there's there's some people that the kind of barstool crowd that they want to meet where they are. And so they have these main cast presentations. And for college football, they had alternate presentations of the all the bowl, the big bowl games, playoff games, with Pat McAfee in a very barstool type presentation, where it's like just guys being dudes cutting up watching sports not taking themselves too seriously. So it's like, you know, the older, more kind of traditional football fan might prefer Joe Buck and Troy Aikman or curb street. But the younger crowd or guys that go to bars, they might prefer to watch the main cast where they're just chilling and watching the game or pat McAfee show version of the game. Or the kids might prefer to watch the Nickelodeon rather than watch these guys in suits and ties. And so they definitely are taking this kind of, I don't know, it's like, there's multiple products coming from one game. And each product is very, very targeted to a certain age demographic specifically. And I don't know, long term like you said, I don't know if that devalues the brand. Or if that just keeps interest with each demographic in a way that's healthy for the NFL, I think time will tell. Well, I
Mike Lewis 36:45
don't think anyone knows, right? I mean, because it's all that's kind of clear is that this this idea of, you know, grow up live my whole life in Chicago, and I'm a Bears fan to the bone that that in my dad was a Bears fan. And my grandfather was a Bears fan. That seems to be history. So the question is, what are we going to have going forward? And, you know, again, it's like, you'd say time will tell it's Yeah. You know, and like, we're not going to solve this one today. Let's let's sort of get away from we'll talk a little bit more about mahomes and her. So next week, we'll start to as we get into the offseason, we'll get started sort of do some retrospective look at the NFL, sort of where the big the big stories were sort of what's going to keep going forward. But now it's also time to spend a little time on the other sports out there. The NBA blew up you know, what does the NBA always lose his to the NFL, the NBA will lose to the NFL when their finals are going on. And then the NFL is doing something like that. Yeah. The NBA took the NFL thunder away, at least for a couple days during the Super Bowl prep period. Yeah. With all with the I guess the what do you want to call the the implosion of the new of the Brooklyn. The Brooklyn Nets. That's a Brooklyn Nets are. This is one of those stories that I think is gonna resonate for years and years in terms of the NBA is the super team era. Dad, have they gone back to the have we gone back to the GMs. And the owners are in charge that the players kind of got out of control and blew themselves up?
Doug Battle 38:32
Well, you look at what happened in Brooklyn, you look at what happened, what's happened in Los Angeles with LeBron, which I you know, the Lakers won an NBA Finals, we forget that because it was during the pandemic. Yeah, the Disney the bubble finals, the Mickey Mouse championship. And I think people largely viewed the LeBron Lakers experience as a failure. And so if you count that as a failure, given that they want to finals, and I think that's highly debatable, because most franchises will take a finals and a couple years of not winning the finals and count that as a win. But if you count that as a failure, if you count the nets as a failure, if you look at what Golden State's done with the tried and true draft and you know, build a team over the years, the look of the Milwaukee Bucks have done and now I mean, Phoenix is like they're kind of like a hybrid, because really Devin Booker's the guy that they drafted, Chris Paul, they got via trade. Kevin Durant via trade, they drafted DeAndre Aten and so that's kind of a hybrid team, that we'll see how they do. I think the Mavericks now like they're kind of that hybrid too with Luca but also Kyrie and so but the teams that are the top teams are all like the Boston Celtics, the Milwaukee Bucks the Golden State Warriors, which of course they're not a top team right now. But they won the finals last year and come playoff time. I wouldn't want to play them so we'll see what happens. But a lot of these teams are the kind of the tried and true built by the GM not built by what GM but by LeBron or by Kevin Durant Kyrie Irving. And so I think there will be a movement in that direction. I think they're kind of starting to be and we're starting to see that. And I think honestly, I think it's good for basketball.
Mike Lewis 40:08
I do too. And and I think it's, you know, even the and say that there's hybrids now. But even the hybrids are situations where it doesn't seem like the players are calling the shots, where the players are getting together, taking their talents to South Beach, or, you know, I'm gonna go to go to the clippers to fight the Lakers. So it's, yeah,
Doug Battle 40:30
this is another example of a player driven soup, quote, unquote, super team. I know people would say they're not super team. Well, they got Kawhi and Paul, George and same offseason it was supposed to be Yeah, it was supposed to be a super team. They're supposed to win championships. And people don't count them as that now because they haven't done what they set out to do. So it's the same with the Lakers. People want to call them a super team. Well, it's like, well, they had LeBron Russell Westbrook. Anthony Davis. That's three Hall of Famers. I don't know what what, you know, I guess we're not calling Team Super teams until they win a bunch of championships. But the bottom line is that team was built like how a super team is built?
Mike Lewis 41:04
Well in when I'm using the term Su, I'm misusing the, the term super team because I'm thinking in terms of like, this idea where the superstars essentially formed the team there where there's, yeah, they're well, or there's some sort of collusion or sort of back, right back and all effort by the players to drive where they ended up building the squads rather than the executives. It's. But Doug, I'll tell you, the NBA, I can't remember. And it seems like it's been kind of veering in this direction for the last couple of years. It seems like we are fully in that new era now where no one knows who's going to win the NBA Championship,
Doug Battle 41:42
which is great, in my opinion, because you go back, I don't know, five years, we knew it was going to be Cleveland in the east, and we knew it was gonna be golden state in the West. And going into the season, I thought, oh, Golden State's got the West unlock right now. They're not even going to make the playoffs. Like if the season ended today. They're not in the playoffs. So it's not. And you look in the West, Sacramento, the three seed right now, I believe. Teams like Utah teams like Denver, in the hunt teams like Memphis. And then in the east, you've got Boston kind of built from the ground up, Milwaukee built from the ground up, like and then a handful of teams that are competitive Cleveland built from the ground up. And so, you know, I think it's great for basketball that we're back the competitive landscape is more competitive than it was five years ago than it was 10 years ago. And you know, I think that those super teams, they draw a lot of eyeballs a lot of people like to watch the Miami Heat with LeBron and D Wade and Chris Bosh, a lot of people like to watch, you know, those warriors teams, I had to rant. But as a whole as a basketball fan, I want to see teams compete, I want my team to have a shot, I want to see Luca Don should have a shot, I want to see Damian Lillard have a shot. Like I want to see these guys who are, you know, some of the top players but that haven't teamed up or you know, some people kind of view that as kind of cheating your way to a championship or it's not technically cheating, but it's just kind of like taking the easy route to a championship. I want to see the guys that don't take the easy route, have a shot at winning championships. And it feels like we're in a league now, where that's something that is possible. And all of a sudden, like a team like Portland with Damian Lillard that maybe, you know, and they might not make the playoffs, but they might be one player away from being one of the top teams in the West. Whereas a few years back, that team has no chance.
Mike Lewis 43:27
So the West is the nuggets are the top seed Grizzlies kings. Yeah, Mavericks, then suns you know, I guess I think the son, I suspect the son's favorite, to be the betting favorite pretty quickly. And maybe they will be we'll see how that how that goes. Where they're how quickly he meshes with, with those guys. Like, I read off those top fours. I have no idea where I would put a wager. I truly don't in the NBA. The NBA has not felt like that. And I want to say I mean talk I can't even figure out, you know, because it's like the NBA has felt like there's been sort of NBA royalty teams, since the Sixers and the Celtics and the Lakers in the late 70s. Yeah, I mean, this is this is unprecedented. And it is really interesting. And it'll be kind of fascinating to see how this plays out in how the fans, how are the fans going to react? Are they going to and again, it's almost like and I don't mean is that sounds like sort of just kind of this curmudgeonly thing. I kind of hope that the suns don't make it, because I'd really like to see where the ratings end up. If it does end up being Memphis versus, you know, Philadelphia or me, you know, and again, you know, the East is a little different because there's a little bit more establishment stars there in terms of expecting these guys to advance. But a lot, you know, I'd like to see where the TV rings are of Denver's in the finals. I think this is going to be really interesting to watch my spot was marketing perspective.
Doug Battle 45:01
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, Phoenix we kind of talked about them now like they're this monster. And that's the small market team. Right. And, and same with like Milwaukee they kind of feel like one of the bluebloods now at this point. But again, small market teams. A lot of you know, I think this is just the best thing for small market franchises and their fan base. It's like, if you're saying the Memphis Grizzlies, this is your best shot you've ever had.
Mike Lewis 45:28
Don't call a Phoenix, not a small market that Doug is probably I suspect that Phoenix, probably a five or 6 million
Doug Battle 45:36
pretty much refer to any team that's not like a New York or in LA or like, Dallas, but I mean, Chicago like I mean, yeah, that's fair, right.
Mike Lewis 45:49
It's a total throw away. But did you see that? Janice is trying to trademark multiple things with the word freak in it. But the letters E and A are replaced by a three and a four.
Doug Battle 46:03
Oh, interesting. I don't know if the four okay, I could see how that would make out freak but I don't know. That's.
Mike Lewis 46:13
But that's an interesting point in terms of like, what is his ceiling? It? Okay, so we go to the east and we say, oh, yeah, the Celtics Jayson Tatum and Dion, US and Joel Embiid. You know, the NBA is moving into this era, where there is no and we tend to talk about, you know, who's going to be the heir apparent on the court, right, who's going to be the next, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, etc. Luca, but, you know, there's this issue of also like, That guy also seems to also have to have some marketing magic. And John Moran, you know, is there marketing magic in any of these guys? And, you know, maybe, maybe me, you know, maybe the marketing magic comes with the championships? Yep. But I don't have a clear view of this.
Doug Battle 46:59
Yeah. And I think, you know, I think Steph Curry has had it, but he's not that next guy. And so looking at it, I think Zion Williamson was a guy a lot of people had pegged you know, he's gonna be the next LeBron and problem is he hasn't been on the court and he's hurt right now. He's gonna be out for a while. So you know, I you know, looking at it this year. I know last week I was super critical THE MAVERICK straight for Kyrie Irving just doesn't feel like the right fit for pairing Luca dodge that said looking at things looking at you know, feeling for the longest time like Luke is gonna be that guy. He's got to be you know, he's got that magic people love the guy he's phenomenal to watch. And he's statistically on pace with like a Jordan in a LeBron is this the year that the Mavericks I mean, they made the Western Conference Finals last year, they make the finals this year with higher just Kyrie put them over the top like was that trade actually enough for them to go from Western Conference Finals to NBA Finals and for Luca dodge to go from kind of second tier? I don't know if he's a second tier storm, he's all star caliber player. But does he enter that conversation of this guy's next, he's the next, you know, LeBron, Steph Curry like face of the league type guy. And so I will certainly be keeping an eye because again, I don't think it's the best move for the Mavericks. But it's like there is a chance that works, you know, there's there's a chance that that Kyrie just starts actually playing first off staying healthy, staying on the court, and then that he and Luca play well together and can put up enough points to beat you know, the teams like suns and so I'll be keeping an eye on that.
Mike Lewis 48:38
And again, you know, sometimes I'm, you know, purely out here, it might seem like I'm rooting for chaos, but I'm just sort of rooting for stuff. That's interesting. Having a European I think Slovenian player as the face of the NBA, that's a fascinating development. And you know, maybe for the NBA is global ambitions. That's a very kind of nice next that they could have. But it's different. Right, I
Doug Battle 49:04
think, to go, I think it has to go that way. I think the NBA has been positioning themselves for that for the longest time. And I think that of the best player, I mean, is it going to be honest, or is it gonna be Luca? Is it going to be you know, Joe? Is it going to be yo kitch? Is it going to be there's so many of the top players are international and I think the NBA I almost think the NBA wants that at this point. But it is it is different than having a LeBron or Michael Jordan like a US born and raised guy from a marketing standpoint. And so it does raise a new challenge for the league where their biggest US stars are guys like Jason Tatum, DEVIN BOOKER, who maybe are kind of like the B list Guy Yeah, relative to Luca Don church, who's who is you know, who's looking to be in LA you know, he could be the next Jordan from from a marketing standpoint, of course,
Mike Lewis 49:53
that is really kind of a fascinating way to look at it right in terms of like, the the the a list the US born players seem to be getting a little low. I mean, there's John Moran. But again, it's sort of this battle for battle for who's next? Okay, Doug, I don't, I don't necessarily want to go down this path. But I'll put this out there. And you can follow along with me as much as you want. This is not a sport that either of us covers a lot. It pays a lot of attention to the WNBA has made the news a little bit lately. And in particular, there's, you know, they had some connections to Kevin Durant in terms of him tweeting to get Breanna Stewart to go to the New York Liberty,
Doug Battle 50:33
and then leaving New York and then leaving.
Mike Lewis 50:37
And then a story came out that there may be some investigations of the Las Vegas aces in terms of maybe trying to circumvent the the salary cap. And the only observation I really want to make about it is I wonder if the WNBA has decided to try and adopt the super team strategy, as opposed to their sort of community building strategy that they've tried for years and years where it looks like it, they've tried to establish two dominant teams, one in Las Vegas, why they chose the Las Vegas market, I don't know, and one for the New York Liberty. And so this league that has, I think, always kind of struggled with their marketing, and again, like trying to get the young people to go, maybe switching gears and trying to really kind of build this aura of star power. Frankly, I don't think it's going to, I don't think it's going to be an effective strategy for it. But I think it was interesting that they're gonna go down this path to try and emulate the big NBA with, you know, their version of things. Yeah,
Doug Battle 51:43
Mark, I'm curious. Is the W NBA still growing? To the best of your knowledge? I know, during the pandemic, I think that was the one sport I think you remember, in your research? I think I remember in your research, that was the one. Yeah, where it actually rose. And it does seem, you know, even last night, during the Superbowl there was that one NFL commercial with the flag football, the female flag football player? And it does seem to there seems to be a rising interest in general. And maybe that's pandering to a degree or whatnot. But maybe it's, you know, there's there's a certain extent to it, where there is kind of a rising interest in women's sports amongst women. And so I'm curious is the is the WNBA growing right now?
Mike Lewis 52:25
I don't know. And the way you put that, I think is interesting, right? It's like, I don't know. I mean, this is one of the frustrations with us, right? Most of the analysis, most of the coverage is always going to sort of act as cheerleaders. Yeah, I have no idea what the level of interest is, in terms of in terms of growth. The WNBA you know, like here locally, the dream, I think has, has been doing a little bit better, since they moved to a smaller arena, they're playing in the G league arena, I think they've done a little bit better, but I think it's just so hard to it's so hard to legitimately assess, because there's no like, like we say this almost every week, and it's not like I'm not gonna take I'm not coming at this from a political angle, but you really don't have a choice. And so a lot of this stuff, you know, from the woman's US Soccer team, you know, the pay equity to you know, the the endless nonsense on Instagram about how LeBron makes more in a game than the end WNBA players make in a season, you know, people will not will not back off on it. I think it's always been this mystery of wider women's sports work, sometimes US women's national team that works. And, you know, personally, I attribute a lot of it to, it's sort of CO branded with the US flag, the WNBA kind of struggles despite having a lot of a lot of publicity. It's you know, in thinking about it as an academic interested in fandom, it's, it's something I just kind of choose, choose to watch. You know, can they develop stars? It's one of your I think, one of the year kind of phrases like we'll just have to say we're still waiting. We're still watching. They can't antenna. They can't and soccer. Right. I don't think you had a legitimate crossover basketball star. Is that something Nike could produce like
Doug Battle 54:14
Lisa Leslie or yeah, there's been a handful of Well, I think
Mike Lewis 54:18
there's been efforts right but, but look, Megan Rapinoe Alex Morgan really Jean King. Again, like household name, blanking on the woman Serena Williams, I'm blanking on Serena Williams. He
Doug Battle 54:30
was in a lot of ads last night. Last night. Yeah.
Mike Lewis 54:33
You know, those were successes. Simone Biles a success with some of these other sports. It's still a work in progress.
Doug Battle 54:41
You just have I just have to think with basketball. The potential is there looking at like Kobe Bryant's endorsement of women's basketball specifically and he was kind of a evangelists for women's basketball in his later years and in seeing that sport, grow, but at the same time there's you know, there's always going to be the you know, the fact that it's it's not layups can't compete with dunks and entertainment.
Mike Lewis 55:10
Here's where it gets interesting. I don't know that that sport is actually growing. Yeah, right. In terms of youth participation.
Doug Battle 55:16
Okay. Well, that's what I'm noticing. That's fine. Wait,
Mike Lewis 55:19
where I live in the suburbs? I think there's a lot more growth in soccer and lacrosse of all things and maybe even volleyball. Yeah, absolutely. It's
Doug Battle 55:29
pretty huge. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just the reason I was asking that was because, you know, it's just, I'm wondering if like the star, if they put all the stars on one team, maybe that it's just focused like that maybe it is better for the league to have this one team that everyone follows, like the Globetrotters or something. And then they just kind of have their adversaries as opposed to like you said, that kind of like hometown field that they currently have with the WNBA. So, but again, I don't know where the league currently stands. So I don't know. Like if a change is make sense, like it was something they need to do or not, because like you said, it's with the media kind of being cheerleaders for the WNBA, it seems, you know, having the NBA 2k features now with the WNBA on it, like there seems to be a growing infrastructure for the WNBA. But it's hard to, it's hard to really assess where they're at. And so assessing a change is even harder to assess.
Mike Lewis 56:23
Well, and I'll just put it out there. One of the things that might be interesting to watch as we go forward is does the WNBA start to get competition? Does the NFL start to you know, girls flag football has become a varsity sport in Georgia? Do we start to see flag football at the collegiate level? Do we start to look? Hey, Doug, we've got the XFL. And the USFL kicking off I think the NFL next week and the USFL in a couple of months. DC the NFL going down the web, you know, the WNBA route and putting some money be behind that? Is there any possibility or potential for you know, women's soccer to go beyond that national team, to having you know, a pro league that generates legitimate, that generates substantial interest? You know, because the WNBA has been, you know, they might complain or be unhappy with their amount of exposure and television deals. They've gotten more than these other kinds of properties. Yeah. And so is there, you know, we could also be looking at a more competitive environment. Okay, Doug, I'm gonna cut off the conversation on the WNBA. Because I feel like we're always a little out of our element there. Anything else you're looking at at this moment as we get to the middle of February 2023?
Doug Battle 57:39
Well, I'll tell you this in the entertainment space, I know you like to touch on that from time to time. We've got a couple of stores properties coming out soon. So that's interesting. I was also interested last night Michael Keaton's Batman, making a return in the new Flash movie. Did not see that one coming. It seems though, as though the Batman brand is all over the place right now with Robert Pattinson. They've got Lego Batman got this guy. Pretty recently, they had Christian Bale Batman and Batfleck Batman. And so there's a lot going on
Mike Lewis 58:10
of the flash. I mean, I don't know who's the who's the flash in the movie. But that talks about a property that's had some look into you. I don't think you're actually aware of how much trouble the actor the play The Flash has gotten into. But that's been a disaster for for the DC Cinematic Universe. But yeah, I mean, you know it, but it is it. It is a good point, right. And in terms of, in some ways, that's what the Marvel Cinematic Universe has done, right? It's like none of these movies are standalone anymore. But it's not Iron Man or Thor. There's always these kind of crossover.
Doug Battle 58:47
Well, now there's this there's this multiverse element, though, where there's like there's different spider men, right? And there's Peter Parker, Peter Parker, and Peter Parker, and Miles Morales, but they're all played by different people. And then even Miles Morales has other Peter Parker's in that world, but now it's like Batman is doing that. So that was something I noticed was like, Oh, are we going to do this with every, like, we're gonna have an alternate Star Wars with a different Luke and Leia, and a different, you know, but they're the other ones still true, you know, canon, but there's multiple truths that are all coexisting in parallel universes. That seems to kind of be what DC is now doing with the Batman property because, to the best of my knowledge, they greenlit a sequel to Robert Pattinson as Batman. And Michael Keaton's Batman is coming back. And like I said, they already have the Lego Batman properties. Ben Affleck's Batman was very recent as was Christian Bale's and so it's like the they kind of have these and then with the Joker, there's so many different Joker's there's the television Joker. There's the there was one in the new movie with Robert Pattinson. Of course there's Heath Ledger. There's Jared Leto. And then they had the movie Joker. And it's like all these it's in the same company and it's in the same DC grand, but they're allowing the same stories to be told by different actors and different directors concurrently, which is kind of interesting to me because that's I don't know if we've seen that prior to Marvel's kind of recent Spider Man stuff. I don't know if we've seen that in cinema before.
Mike Lewis 1:00:15
And I suspect a part of the problem is that the comic book stuff is about the only thing that's consistently worked over the last over the last several years. And like, I've, in some ways you got a feel for these people, because it's all not it's not, you know, this is not 1984, where we're gonna have, you know, Jack Nicholson is the Joker and Michael Keaton is Batman. You know, these folks are now sort of small parts of big streaming platforms. And so you know, the DC comic universe is something it's a mainstay for the HBO Max streaming platform, right? The Marvel Cinematic Universe is really, you know, half of probably what's holding that Disney streaming platform together. And so you've got this weird mix of, you know, John Cena as the peacemaker, for eight episodes. In addition to you know, the, the movie franchises that can seem to continually being blown up of, you know, Henry Cavill is out as Superman, and they brought in the rock to be black and, and they're unhappy with that. And so let's, let's sort of, you know, crumple up the paper and start again, it's a again, you know, time will tell, but it's, you know, you think about where all this stuff came in, came from this tremendous brand equity of these characters being, you know, part of American culture. And now if it feels like it's like continual reboots, instead of we're going to reboot it, you know what we'll do three movies, we'll wait 10 years, we'll do three more movies. Now it's just it, I kind of get where you're coming from, it feels a little bit like chaos. So far, if
Doug Battle 1:01:54
it feels chaotic, it feels like inconsistent branding. Like for Batman, for example, I have different color schemes and different logos and different like all this, but then looking at like what we were talking about earlier with football and the different presentations it has, and how it's like there's the Nickelodeon one geared towards Gen Z. And then there's the regular one. And then there's the Pat McAfee one or whatever. And now it's like with Batman, for example, or spider man or any of these, where it's like, well, there's the Michael Keaton one, and that's Batman for guys like my dad. And then there's the Christian Bale one. And that's for like, guys in their 40s Now or 30s. And then there's like Robert Pattinson and that's kind of like the Gen Z Batman. And it's like they're all happening concurrently is like is every property including sports for every property with a fandom gonna have such a like, targeted you know, version for each different demographic is that kind of the new way media is going to work with streaming and with the options we have digitally when watching even live sports where you could watch multiple different broadcasts or angles or whatnot, it's gonna be that personalized, where it's like, you know, I don't like Michael Keaton Batman, I'm more of a Christian Bale Batman, or I don't like Jared Leto Joker, I'm gonna watch. You know, whatever, whoever the new Joker is for Robert Pattinson or whatever, or Chris or Heath Ledger's Joker? Like, are these all going to be coming out at the same time? Of course, Heath Ledger won't but rip. But you know, is that going to be the new format? That's something I've noticed recently, and what you know, that had brought to mind last night.
Mike Lewis 1:03:19
And I think that's fair. And it gets to like, this was an older kind of media issue that I don't think got adequate attention was like back in the day. You know, when you were growing up, there was Disney or there was Nickelodeon. Right, right. And part of the game for those places had to be any, you know, lucky, if you think about your cable, your cable box, the old school cable box, there were 200 channels, right. But they were all owned by about six companies. Right? And so like, in the case of Nickelodeon, there was almost this, it has to be part of his like, You got to take this Nickelodeon audience, you got to transition them to the next Viacom product, which was MTV. And from there, you got to transition them to the next thing. Now the media environment moves so quickly. I don't think we get to see those kind of transitions play out. But like, I think you're right. I mean, take one of your other favorite properties. Clone Wars is got to be the best way ever to grab on to the young kids. Yeah. But then you got to figure out a way you got to be true enough and have enough consistency, that you're going to transition them to the movies and you're going to transition them to, you know, maybe some of the eventual darker or more adult products that you you flesh this out with?
Doug Battle 1:04:30
Yeah, I'm just curious if it's going to move to such a like level where we're going to have, like the new Star Wars movie will be. There'll be a version for every different generation, and I'll have a different rating and one of them will be animated and they'll have different actors and all that. I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but it's almost like that's where we're at with Spider Man and Batman properties. Looking at you know, now that Michael Keaton is coming back and so and seeing what sports is doing with their streaming and how kind of things Arrow entertainments moving, it's not that far fetched of an idea, and it seems to be moving in that direction to some degree at least,
Mike Lewis 1:05:06
I think you're dead on. I think the the mistake that they're making currently is actually sometimes when they try and do too much within a single property, right. And I think back to the, sorry, the Boba Fett, the bulk of Boba Fett, where you had sort of this almost very adult oriented themes really reminiscent of, you know, dancing with wolves, where he's living with a nomadic tribe. And then two episodes later, you've got this tribute power.
Doug Battle 1:05:34
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's a great point. And I also think when you have simultaneously these these different versions going on, like with Batman, it weirdly kind of D legitimizes one of them, or because it's like, well, this isn't the Batman, this is a Batman. And so this isn't the story of all stories, like, you know, when you watch the Lord of the Rings, or when he originally watched stars, it felt like this grand like, this is the story. This is good versus evil. And now it's like, well, this is a version of the main theme, but it could be played by a girl or it could be you know, there's another version of it that you could watch and that could be your like, quote unquote, truth or your your Canon. So you get to kind of choose your Canon. And to me the fact that there is a choice takes away the implications are significant, the weight of any one episode or any one version.
Mike Lewis 1:06:23
Well, in again, there should be this kind of core principle that people should not forget as much as they want to. Yeah. When we're talking about a cultural product part of you know, this is something that people need to feel passionate about right? They need to really love if it's something that is for everyone, then guess what, then it's something for no one Yeah.
Doug Battle 1:06:46
It's like when you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterback, I always okay.
Mike Lewis 1:06:53
Actually should be Fanalytics and quarterback narratives. Okay, guys, thanks for listening back next week and we'll start to dig into the 2022 NFL season some of the some of the key quarterback themes, some of the winners and the losers, losers and the guys that have probably changed things going forward from the next couple of years.